ShantiBaba's Story by ShantiBaba

2

Comments

  • Happy Frog Junior Member Posts: 34
    edited November 2010
    Happy Frog;102361 said:
    Plus I just like to say "Shanti Baba".) :smoke3:
    Well, actually, I like to sing it and pretend I'm playing the guitar. ( To the tune of the Black Keys- Tighten Up).

    "Shan Shan Shantibaba, Shan Shan Shantibaba, do do Shantibaba, do do do do do doooooo..." :guitar:

  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,564
    edited November 2010
    get a room

    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • AlchemistAlchemist No need to panic Posts: 412
    edited November 2010
    holy shit that hasselhoff video is amazing! I really haven't looked into his music much but wow! that is out there...
  • Monseigneur StroganoffMonseigneur Stroganoff Posts: 4,335
    edited December 2010
    [QUOTE]Originally Posted by TomHill [URL="http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?p=77132#post77132"]image
    Well hello Nevil,

    Sam has been there since the mid 80's, not part of a group that came in the early 90's. If you are saying that the Dutch Ministry sought out leading cannabis scientists seeking information and felt that RC and co was the place to go, then that would be believable indeed.

    Do you not feel that that of the IHA, Hemp Diseases and Pests, etc, are excellent works? I certainly do. But perhaps you have countered these works with texts that I am unaware of.

    Please be clear Nevil as I am sure your audience would appreciate it. Since I happen to know that SamS has never worked with GM cannabis - the supposed subject of this thread, you might imagine why I am a bit confused here. Are you now stating that this Mr. Lap specifically told you that Hortifarm's license was a "pay-off" (as in paid for dirty deeds), or, is that part of the information only "apparent" to you? Lastly, can you produce this Mr. Lap, and would he be someone that we might believe? No offense man, but you are using Joe Pietry as a source here too - and he is really quite uniformed, delusional, and just an outright liar.

    Sincerely,
    Tom

    Hi Tom
    Let me say that I respect your loyalty to Sam and I once felt the same as you do. I remember that Cultivators Choice catalogue in the High Times. It was an inspiration to me. I remember when I first met Rob and Sam in '84, these guys were legends and helped me enormously. It was business of course, but just the same. Rob, with Sam's help so I was told, wrote Marijuana Botany and sold me Early Pearl and Sam sold me various Skunk lines, which was the industry standard at the time. I was not going to fuck up my relationship with these guys over petty shit. We all remained pretty much on good speaking terms until the mid '90's. Of course there was Sam with his bullshit fine print, that was added to imaginary contracts years after I bought the seeds, but I ignored that. I figured he was delusional.

    It would have been about '95, but I'm terrible with dates, but I was working at the castle for Ben and they came to see me. They wanted to enlist my help in delineating the ancestries of the strains that I had put out. Ben still wasn't selling anything that I hadn't made (to the best of my knowledge).
    I found this to be a remarkable request for a number of reasons. I asked them why? What followed rocked my world. They told me that they were cooperating with the Australian Federal Police, who wanted to establish links between growing operation in Australia using genetic fingerprinting and the information I was to provide. This would lead to longer prison sentences. I'd recently done 11 months in maximum security remand in Australia and alarm bells are going off in my head like crazy. But I can be cool under pressure and decided to draw them out. They knew I had children in Australia and couldn't go and see them. The suggestion was raised that cooperating might help my chances to be able to go back. They thought they had me. I said that I needed time to consider this proposal and needed some kind of documentary proof that they were genuine. No problem, I was told.
    On a later visit I was provided with documents from the Australian Federal Police demonstrating that this and much more was indeed the case. I said that I wished to show these documents to a legal advisor before making any decisions and was given their permission to do so. I went to Mario Lap, who used to work for the N.I.A.D. (Dutch institute for alcohol and drugs) and was an advisor to the Dutch Labour Party on cannabis affairs. He has a good paralegal mind and is well acquainted with law as it relates to cannabis. He was horrified as to the implications of those documents and didn't particularly like American spooks operating in his back yard. He made further enquiries with the various Dutch ministries as to who these people were and who they were connected with and how they got their permits for Hortapharm. Mario is on record as to what he concluded and how that lead to their losing the Hortapharm licence, My repeating it would only be hearsay. He may still have the original documents.

    Some time later when Hortapharm had lost their licence and the Dutch law had been changed and seed breeding was illegal in Holland, we were all fairly bitter. Sam wanted a showdown which Arjan ended up organising. Sam, Rob, Arjan and I met in a coffee shop. I don't think Scott was there. They accused me of bringing down Hortapharm and I accused them of destroying the Dutch scene in order to get a monopoly. They came with their rationalisations the end justifying the means etc, but neither of us denied anything much. Nothing was achieved and we never saw each other again.

    Now where I come from these are pretty serious accusations and I'm also aware of the ninth commandment; You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour and this is a public forum, so I'm being very careful to stick to the truth as I know it. I would swear to this in court and may all my Haze turn into Afghani#1 if I'm lying.

    So that's off my chest. Confirm things with Mario if you like, I haven't contacted him in 5 years. Better still, talk to Sam and see what he wants to deny. I can tell you that the Dutch articles about the subject seem pretty spot on to me.
    N. [/QUOTE]
  • Riddle78 outdoor grower Posts: 404
    edited December 2010
    Monseigneur Stroganoff;103286 said:
    I would swear to this in court and may all my Haze turn into Afghani#1 if I'm lying.

    :muahaha:
    smoking flowers
  • Green 4 Good Junior Member Posts: 3
    edited December 2010
    Green Supreme;102672 said:
    Hmm so Neville got pre 70's Haze in Amsterdam? Pretty sure he had not gone to the US. Peace GS
    Sam sold him the seeds when he arrived in Amsterdam after the bust in the US.
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited December 2010
    Above he claimed that he did not get them from Sam and that he got them from, like bag seed in A'dam in the 70's. Peace GS
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • Green 4 Good Junior Member Posts: 3
    edited December 2010
    c-ray;102657 said:
    Yeah, I've heard Sam whining before about how he should really get a royalty from everyone who he sold seeds to who used his genetics, 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids. This is after he sold you something for more than the price of gold in the first place. By his own admission, he didn't start working with Haze until the 70's. All the good ones I grew were from prior to 1970, so whose seeds were they, or is Sam a secret Haze brother. It seems that Sam feels that he deserves a lot of respect for getting seeds from one competent guy and selling them to another. Indeed, it may well be his finest achievement.

    I got 7 plants out of a couple of thousand seeds and they were all different. So which ones were the pure ones exactly! Royalties indeed, I think I'll call him 'Monsanto Sam".
    N.
    GS, I see what you're getting at now. I can't get any quotes from nevil right now to clarify more cuz the mr nice forum is offline, but I'll try if you want when it comes back. Anyhow, Nevil did get the haze seeds from Sam. It's just that Sam himself didn't start working them until the 70's, and Nevil still does not know the original breeders.

    G4G
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited January 2011
    Found these elsewhere. Hmmm Ortega huh. Peace GS

    2010 out now!

    Black Widow
    Critical Mass
    Devil
    Dreamtime
    Early Queen
    La Nina
    Medicine Man
    Shark Shock
    Shit
    Spice
    Super silver Haze
    Walkabout

    Specials and Limited Editions

    Afghan Skunk
    Afghan Haze
    Afghan Skunkx Afghan Haze
    Critical Haze
    Critical Skunk
    Early Queen x Afghan Haze
    Early Sk x Haze
    Early Skunk
    G13 x Haze
    G13 x Skunk
    G13 x Widow
    Mango Afghan Skunk
    Mango Haze
    Mango Haze x Afghan Haze
    Mango x Widow
    Master Kush x Afghan Haze
    Master Kush x Skunk
    Neville's Haze
    Neville's Haze x Mango
    Neville's Haze x Afghan Skunk
    NL5 x Haze
    NL5 xAfghan
    NL5x Skunk
    NLx Haze/ Skunk
    Ortega
    Skunk Haze


    Haze Hybrids

    SSH
    Mango Haze(MH)
    Nev Haze
    NH x Mango Haze
    EQSkx Af/Haze
    MKSK x Af/Haze
    Af/ Sk x Af/Haze(ASH)
    La Nina
    SSH x Widow
    EQSK x Haze C
    MKSK x Haze C
    Afghan Haze
    Critcal Haze
    Critical Mass x Haze C
    Af/Sk x Haze C
    Nev Haze x Af/sk
    MH x Af/Sk
    N.H.S(NL5/Hz x Sk)
    EPSk x Haze C
    Skunk x Haze C
    MH x Af/Haze


    And a NEW MEDICAL strain in SEED! not just clone!.

    It is high in CBD!.
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • Brick TopBrick Top Senior Member Posts: 212
    edited January 2011
    Green Supreme;102666 said:
    Wonder where Neville got those pre 70's haze seeds, hmmm. Peace GS

    Sometime roughly around 2000 to 2002 I read an article that allegedly was written by someone who at some point had talked to the Haze Brothers and asked about their sharing of genetics with Neville. I cannot swear to the accuracy of what I read but it said that the Haze Brothers did meet with Neville and they did share genetics with him but that they did not fully trust him and because of that they did not share with him what they considered to be their highest grade genetics.

    It said that they wanted certain genetics to remain in their pure form, some of it some of their breeding stock and some certain Haze Brother's creations, and all offered to the public in those forms. Supposedly Neville agreed but as I said in the article they claimed they did not fully trust Neville so they held back what they considered too be their very best but did share some of their genetics with him.

    True or not I cannot swear and it has been too many years now to remember what publication I read it in, but I do clearly remember reading it and clearly remember that it said there was a concern about trusting Neville so what was claimed was shared was limited.

    If true it would mean Sam was inaccurate, not meaning that he lied, he may have just never known, when he said the Haze Brothers never met with and never shared genetics with Neville, but it would lend some credence to the claims of Neville possibly being a bit slippery, or at least being perceived by some as being a bit slippery in his business practices.

    You can take that with anything from a grain of salt to an entire salt lick or even an entire salt mine, but it is what I read in a cannabis publication roughly 9 to 11 years ago now.
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited January 2011
    Wow Bricktop, good to see ya man. Thanks for sharing. Peace GS
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • Brick TopBrick Top Senior Member Posts: 212
    edited January 2011
    Green Supreme;103883 said:
    Wow Bricktop, good to see ya man. Thanks for sharing. Peace GS

    It's been a while .. but I thought I would pop back in and maybe hang around a while if the good folks here will have me.
  • spacemanspaceman Civilized worm Posts: 8,537
    edited January 2011
    giver.,.,!
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
  • Green 4 Good Junior Member Posts: 3
    edited January 2011
    K, finally found some of the info i was looking for. And I would be inclined to say that Nevil never met the Haze Bros cuz there are endless posts about the history of haze and the part Nevil played in the story over at Mr Nice forum. There are no mentions of Nevil ever meeting them or getting haze from anybody other than Sam. Hopefully, this answers some questions.
    bigherb;68184 said:

    IMO opinion this post might help you all understand my assumption /opinion that the haze stock SAMS gave you wasnt from 69/70 as he told you.
    1luvbigherb
    http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/68267-post682.html
    Nevil;68267 said:
    Unless you have direct knowledge that I'm not privy to, I'd suggest that you drop the assumption.
    The seeds I got were not just 2 bags. It could have been 12. One had three years put together of older stuff, The bags were old and crinkled like they'd been handled a lot over the years. The writing was old. Germination rates were consistant with the ages described. Sam was uncomfortable selling it. Everything was consistant with the legend.

    Sam is an abrasive fellow. He might stretch the truth to exaggerate his own importance, and he does collaborate with the enemy, but I wouldn't accuse him of perpetrating such an elaborate hoax as what you seem to be suggesting. He is a breeder and misrepresenting what he is actually selling would be an atrocity that even he couldn't live with.
    I don't like the man, but he has played a significant role in cannabis history.
    Everything he has ever sold me has been exactly what he said it was. I'd trust his pedigrees more than I would trust those of most of the modern seed companies.
    I was there and parting with the equivalent of a few months salary. If I was you, I wouldn't make the assumption that I could be fooled so easily.

    The facts demonstrate that those seeds were the closest to the source of true haze. I got what I paid for.
    N.
    http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/57277-post30.html
    Nevil;57277 said:
    Still a lot of questions about haze and apparently a lot of conflicting stories.
    I haven't been paying attention to what Sam the Skunkman has been saying. He lost me years ago and if he wants to come out from behind his alias and go toe to toe with me, well that will be just fine with me (hey David).
    If he is saying that he gave me Purple Haze and it was crap, Well that's true. If he is saying that his lime green Haze was crap , well that's true too. If he is saying that he gave me a Haze cutting, well to be honest, I can't remember, but if he did it was crap. I seem to recall that he entered his lime Haze in a Cup, if he did he got his arse kicked.
    The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
    Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
    Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
    If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!
    G4G
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited January 2011
    Man peoples love to out folks real names. Really quite lame to me. Peace GS
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited January 2011
    Shantibaba Interview
    December 23, 2010

    Following a series of interviews with some of the worlds leading cannabis breeders, it was about time Soft Secrets pulled their fingers out of the Rizla papers and arranged an interview with cannabis cultures most prolific breeder to date, Shantibaba. With a professional career spanning over two decades, as a writer and traveler, the founding geneticist of the worlds most famous seed bank, the overall winner of Cannabis's highest and most prestigious accolades, and the man that now works with Howard Marks, borrowing 10mins from this elusive breeder's busy schedule was never going to be easy. Eventually, we finally managed to catch up with Shantibaba to ask him some questions about his work with and love for cannabis plants.

    Where does the name Shantibaba come from?

    While I was in India in the early 80's an Indian friend and I established a gem cutting business in Jaipur called Shantibaba Enterprises...and considering it means peaceful person it somehow stuck to me.

    When did you first discover cannabis and why did you start cultivating marijuana for yourself?

    I tried cannabis with a few mates around 13yr old, found myself and a mate of mine on all fours following a white line on a grassy strip that was not there...laughed like there was no tomorrow, immediately felt akin with this plant.

    It was the mid seventies when I first grew from seed, motivated out of the insatiable appetite to consume this plant, and never being able to find a constant product on the black market. So it was easier to learn to do it myself and not rely on anyone's b/s. I made a lot of mistakes but finally went into growing indoor with lamps in Australia around 1978...or there about, which changed my life forever.

    What are your most memorable 'highs' and 'lows' during your 2G years traveling across Asia?

    Big question! I expect the highs would be not loosing my freedom and carefree nature and my time in India on my Royal Enfield. Looking for seed was my mission and having my own means to go anywhere at anytime where no road was the wrong road...that was a big HIGH.

    The low time was rare in Asia...a lot more of those moments when I went to the so called Developed world of Europe.

    Where else have you traveled in pursuit of landrace cannabis genetics?

    That is a long list...but pretty much 4 out of 5 continents to date...only Africa eludes me for now, but I feel when my daughter is a little older we will do that continent together.

    Probably south east Asia was the place I did most thoroughly since the 1980s and still doing. Was just in Irian Jaya (the Indonesian part of Papua New Guinea) and that was the hardest place I trekked in my life...after 12 days deep into tribal area doing 8-10 hours walk each day...I was ready to become a tree!

    Please tell us about your favorite varieties of cannabis to grow.

    I do not have a favorite, as anything I grow becomes a part of me during its life cycle. I get as passionate about growing fruits or veggies too! I expect Mother Nature's world does it for me big time.

    How did you become a Cannabis Geneticist?

    Accidentally, if you want the truth! That sort of work was never viewed, and in certain places in the world still is not viewed as a job. So it was hard as a boy to aspire to a job that was not even in existence to the visible world...I expect it is a bit like the work my children will be doing in 20 years; not imaginable from where we stand with our current knowledge.

    But generally I was partial to plants and my favorite three things are grapes, olives and Cannabis. Since Cannabis grew relatively quickly compared to fruit trees or nuts, it seemed to be something I could have an effect on in my life span.

    Not to mention I love to travel, adventure and research, so it was also a job I could incorporate in all parts of my life where ever I was...in some way. Over time it consumed me and defined me unto what I am today.

    When did you first develop your own stock and own seed bank?

    It is hard to pin point a time about seed since from the first time I smoked I began collecting seed...

    I suspect my University years were the defining point of my serious approach along with traveling and seed collection. Mullumbimby Madness was a strain I worked on with several others in northern NSW in the early to mid 1980's and with which I had a lot of success with early on. The first Seed Bank that I founded unofficially was in Australia...but officially the tax paying companies only exist and still do exist in Holland.

    In 1992 you relocated your seed bank to Amsterdam. In hindsight, do you ever regret this move?

    Holland, especially the early to mid 1990's was a fantastic period for like minded people. It was a happening daily and I expect the enthusiasm and passion for having a coffee shop to go to at the end of a day's work to pow wow and exchange ideas etc...well it got us all in the plan. It was also the time I began working with Neville (who was the founder of The Seed Bank which went on to become the Sensi Seed Bank.) Rob Clarke was around a lot, and a host of other scientific char*acters...so it was an excellent time and a lot of very constructive breeding went on.

    Regret the move to Holland...No, I do not regret anything I have done in my life up till now, so the answer would be no! But like all things, there is a life span and by 1998 I had had enough, not to mention the blatant capitalism and standard greed related things that come with success and change people you once knew well! Such is life!

    How many cannabis cups have you won to date?

    Cannabis Cups are things I do not really keep a tally on, as they kind of lost their meaning for me now. But let's say 1998 was a year both Neville and I tried very hard to do our best work and it was a very successful year. Up until then, and between us both, we had done seriously well with breeding things people enjoyed. In a lot of European countries our strains have been entered by the respective growers and continue to receive accolades. It is not a reason or motivation to work with this plant, I leave that to the others nowadays.

    After leaving Amsterdam as the world's most famous cannabis breeder, what did Shantibaba do next?

    Well, I left Holland as I was head-hunted by a Swiss group based in Ticino, the Italian side of Switzerland. I sold my interest in the GHSco, set up Mr. Nice Seed Bank, took my mothers and father plants, as well all of Neville's mother and father plants, and headed to the hills. I was invited to set up a new company with a Swiss partner and was made vice-president along side Doctor Nussbaumer who was made president, plus 2 lawyers and 1 criminologist. Our intentions were to begin essential oil production, seed production, medical tinctures to aid patients with pain management issues, and just about anything else that was possible. My new country's cultivation possibilities made Holland look like a kindergarten for growers, in comparison.

    How did you make the connection with Howard Marks?

    Over a beer or two at one of the High Times Cannabis Cup when I was breeding the White family hybrids... So that was in 1996. It was one of the most easy and deeply touching friendships that evolved from day one! Howard Marks was unknown to me previously so I did not have all the expectations that can cloud one's view when you meet. Mind you, he had perfect credentials from my point of view. I recall he asked me with that silky smoked voice he has, 'any chance an old bastard like me could find a way to work with you in this business?'... or something to those words. My reply was something along the lines of, 'I think you might be a little high profile for me' and so it evolved...

    Did Mr. Nice Seeds naturally develop or did it take lots of work to get things off the ground?

    Since Neville and I had joined forces and had all the mothers and fathers of practically all strains, it was harder to choose which strains we'd use rather than create a new range. So it occurred with ease and good humor rather than any other way. Sort of like putting a new pair of shoes on that fitted perfectly from the first step.

    Are the seeds you currently produce at Mr. Nice Seeds today still based on the foundations of your original work?

    Yes, but since we have been involved in owning and founding other existing seed companies we decided to change the names for all old existing strains except for `Super Silver Haze'. We did that since so many other seed companies copied our original names but used different plants to make those seeds with. In fact look at `White Widow' and how many companies offer it, all claiming it to be the original...that is why we renamed it `Black Widow' and to this day no one has copied it.

    What is GU?

    `Gene Bank Technology' was the name of the mother company I founded in Switzerland after leaving Holland. It was responsible for all the peripheral companies and activities we established afterwards like the Hemp beer , cloning nursery, essential oil distillation for the cosmetic industry, medical tincture (used for pain management of MS and Chemotherapy patients), and of course seed production.

    GBT was closed and all assets were seized after 4 years of functioning normally in Ticino...due to self righteous Prosecutors with a mission to eradicate Hemp in early 2003. To this day, no laws have ever been changed to initiate `Operation Indoor', and cannabis is legal to grow in Switzerland...as long as it is not done for the illegal drug market. But that is politics and paradox, too difficult to interpret if you are sitting on my side of the fence.

    Please explain a little about what you call 'The Marijuana Specialized Nursery'?

    GBT took over an old silo with 11 floors in Bellinzona in 1999 and the top floor was made to house the entire mother and father plants in a huge `state of the art' grow room. It contained 42 different original plants that, when combined to each other produced the same F1 seed or aroma or flower top time after time. So in that room we held a library of all the years work both Nevil and I had put into finding genetics to replicate. It was a specialized plant nursery dedicated to one plant type.... Cannabis.

    Which visions does Shantibaba hold in garden for the future?

    I do not really think about the future very much but I plan to go back to old seed stock of both Nevil's and my own and pull a few old flavors out of the vaults. The thrill of making the strongest effecting Cannabis has gone for me , I prefer to concentrate on aromas and flavors in the future...since all my plants are proven to be strong enough already.

    Grow some Olives and make some wine in between raising a few children gives me something to do during the night hours of my grow rooms and breeding projects...

    Source: Shantibaba - Mr. Nice Seeds - Interview | World of Seeds

    Peace GS
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,564
    edited January 2011
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,564
    edited January 2011
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited January 2011
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • GoKart MotzartGoKart Motzart checking out the weather Posts: 955
    edited January 2011
    :popcorn:
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited January 2011
    The Shanti cheerleaders might like this one. Questions for Neville from MNS site. Peace GS

    http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice-vu-du-com-support/4308-questions-nevil.html
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited February 2011
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • spacemanspaceman Civilized worm Posts: 8,537
    edited February 2011
    well all i can say is like the mango haze and i like the super silver haze.,
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
  • Green SupremeGreen Supreme Plant Manager Heaven BCPosts: 17,347
    edited September 2011
    Shanti according to Arjan. Peace GS

    There was some confusion whether or not this thread would be allowed in here. We have permission to post this. So if you are planning to delete our threads in our vendor forum, think again. dont try to censor our comments please.

    After many many years of reading rumors and false accusations about Arjan and our company on the internet, Arjan decided it was time to set the record straight. This is a letter written by Arjan that uncovers the real truth about what really happened when he started. We would normally not do this, but kids on the internet are starting to cut and paste statements from rumors and lies spread about us, so we now feel its time for them to learn about the facts, to stop speculating and get all the cards on the table.


    Dear Cannabis World

    Be aware of imitations



    This letter is a moment of truth. It is a moment to thank all growers and smokers worldwide for their support for the Green House Seed Co and our dream/mission of creating awareness eventually leading to legalizing this incredible plant all over the world. In this industry, there isn't a better example of creating and building equity, than Green House: the successful grower turned into a business that has grown into a family, that inspires a entire community/culture and a foundation that tries to help the people that are not in a position to help themselves.

    It all started in 1983 when I met a very inspired man in Thailand, a true guru. One of the main things this great man taught me was to always believe in myself, to strive to achieve goals in my life, and to create a peaceful harmony in your body and mind so you can enjoy life to the maximum.
    He was a very old man when I met him in the jungle of Thailand, where he was doing a lot of charitable work such as working with heroine addicts.
    I only spent a week with him but I learned so much that it would take a book to explain the depth of this man; he said that if I would believe in myself I could be part of something very beautiful.
    He looked at me and said: 'The world is going to be destroyed by humans.' I was only 18 years old, it was 1983; but I saw something in his eyes and I believed in him. So I asked: 'what can I do?' He looked at me and said: 'It's all in the Cannabis Plant'.
    Then he went on explaining to me about how this plant could overthrow pharmaceuticals, chemicals and even governments because of its power.
    I looked at him and thought maybe he was crazy; but at the same time I felt by looking in his eyes that he was dead serious. He looked at me and said: 'You are young and strong, I want you to go back and dedicate your life to this plant'. After seeing him curing heroine addicts with cannabis I was convinced. Heroin is one of the worst addictions to cure, but the plant could win.

    This is my background; this is why I believe that good healthy principles should be standard for our world. Things like believing in yourself to achieve goals, and to create something that a lot of people benefit from, or walking away from bad people in order to avoid jealousy.
    Because once you become successful all these things will come to hunt you and try to destroy you.
    Basically, as the old Thai guru said, being successful in this world creates wars in other people's heads.

    One of the most important teachings he left to me is to never talk bad about other people even if they do so about you. He told me, 'Ignore them, they will go away.'

    After collecting many different types of seeds during my travels between 1985 to 1990, I decided to launch my own seed co in 1995 in Amsterdam. At the Green House our staff becomes our family and friends and we share everything with each-other and for this reason, I was nice enough to offer Scott 25% of the shares in the new company I took the initiative to register, this later turned out to be a mistake, but it didnt keep me dwelling on the past, I have long moved on and built up something much better......

    As you all know, the Green House now is one of the most successful businesses in our whole industry, with the best Coffeeshops, and the worlds leading Seed Company. Since 2006 the Green House Seed co has grown tremendously, but only through hard work, dedication and large investments into research, development, and community/media projects. We now have a state of the art breeding facility, our own documentary series "strain hunters", the automatic seed selector that is able to scan seeds to sort the based on certain characteristics, improving germination rates and many more projects. The Green House employs a huge family of more than 100 people and can no longer be compared to the green house seed company that I started together with several other people, who I invited to come work with me under the GREEN HOUSE name. In those days, ALL of us had to learn certain things, since there was no one else to follow.

    We have been working our butts off for the last twenty years, often more than 20 hours a day. We are a great team, and we have been taking very big risks.

    I have never been writing much on the forums, but this time I will make an exception, since some people are trying to re-write history and, of course, are failing. It is time that I speak the truth. And to be honest I am writing this piece more for my staff than for myself.

    In 1995 I hired a guy called Scott Blackey to water my plants and take care of the sales in the Green House Seed Company. Scott later became a partner in the company that we registered together with 2 other share holders. As we all know today, it was a complete failure; he even stated it himself on the icmag forum. We never sold many seeds or made a profit, and I have never talked in public about these three years ('95-'98) when I worked with him; but now that he has been talking very bad about Green House for the last 14 years, and broadcasting immature videos on Youtube, it is time I clarify a few things.

    We will discuss some of the lies that he has published himself (what a fool) on the icmag forum. I never had anything against Scott and thought everything was fine, we both went our separate ways. Scott thought a little different about that, and obviously does not like me at all.

    We never reacted until now, and there are a few reasons for this:

    1. As King of Cannabis, by Dutch costume you should never talk bad about other people.

    2. As a human being you should never talk bad about other people.

    3. To give him any credit would be too much, so we were just ignoring him. Basic business principles.

    4. Anyone who talks about you, good or bad, produces advertisement. And his stupid little war has created a lot of business for us.

    5. We collected over the years a large number of fake facts and information that he spread over the web, and filed everything.


    So here a few facts: who is Scott Blackey? He calls himself Shanti Baba, which means 'quiet, quiet guru'. We call him 'ShantiBlaBla', a.k.a. 'Waterboy'.

    What's his technique? It's the copying technique, that he learnt form his father, Martin Blackey who is a so-called gambler. Martin wrote a book about gambling, which just happens to be a copy of another book. Like father, like son.
    Shantiblabla arrives, sits down with you, smokes a joint, talks for hours, and in the end you are convinced of his story. This is what more than one person told me.
    He only works with famous names to look more important. First he did that with myself, the King of Cannabis. Then he used Luca Bargini in Switzerland. And then he used Neville and Mr. Nice.
    With Luca Bargini and myself he really did some work, but with Neville (he calls him Nev, to look familiar) and Mr. Nice he never really worked. Mr. Nice himself stated in several magazines that he had never had a working relationship with Shantibaba. How funny. I could go on for days, but I will keep it brief and clear.

    Now let's go on and analyze the short history between Green House and Waterboy (and these are just the proven facts written by Waterboy himself and icmag that we filed).

    Here are just a few:

    1. Waterboy claims to have invented white widow. How does he dare?
    Ingemar invented WW already in 1987 long before he was living in Holland.
    It was called Arnhem's Wonder and already won the first HL cup in 1989.
    Everybody knew this except some wise guys on icmag. For those who don't believe this, please call Coffeeshop Catweazel or Roger from the grow shop; they worked with Ingmar for a long time.
    Roger has always sold the clones he had. He had a famous grow shop in Nijmegen. I bought the male and female among other plants in 1992 and only crossed them in 1994. I did not have to do any breading on the White Widow at that time because Ingemar had already done it for us.
    And to this day you can still buy original clones of the White Widow in that area of Holland.

    2. Waterboy also claims to have upgraded the SSH. In fact he calls himself 'the father and mother of the White Widow and Super Silver Haze' in the Italian Dolce Vita magazine. Really? Wow.
    How could have Waterboy upgraded the Super Silver Haze that Neville had created and that was so good to have won three cups in a row ('97, '98, '99)? What did he make better? Isn't that the funniest thing?
    As a matter of fact I can talk about something even funnier: when we entered the High Times Cannabis Cup in 2008 with SSH and got 3rd place, Shantiblabla claimed that it was his grower selling Super Silver Haze to us. He wrote this himself on the forums, as usual contradicting another version. In reality, which grower in Holland actually sold this to me? You know who? We bought it form Derry, who helped us out at the last moment. Later we found out it was amnesia haze that came out third. How funny, Waterboy didn't recognize his own super silver haze.

    3. Waterboy claims that we spend €35.000 a month on advertisement and that we make no profit, and that all this money comes from the Coffeeshops. The reality is that we spend only €15.000 a month and we are still so popular. He forgot to mention that we spend much more in research and development and expeditions.

    4. Waterboy claims that we sell no seeds but he gets thousands of complaints about us. Isn't that a contradiction in terms? The real facts are that he has no seeds and that he does not sell much, apart from a few packs over the Internet. We, on the other hand, sold over 350000 packs of seeds last year. In Spain Shantibaba only had one distributor. Nobody else wanted him and he had no seeds for a very long time. How come? We keep reading on the forums that his stock is low, and that people are waiting for his seeds for a very long time. Sometimes for years! What varieties is he growing? Never-ending sativas? Even those flower in 16 weeks!
    Marco Renda waited for very long, and only received 10 packs of a few varieties back in 2009, after that nothing. Wow, 10 packs of each? Really? Incredible. He waited more than a year for this.
    Funny if you think that Marco Renda got 15.000 packs from us last week, just to give you an idea, and he will need more by the end of the year. LOL!
    Some of you guys reading this, especially on the icmag forum, must be really confused by now. Well, let me give you some more facts about the sales, because sales are a measure of efficiency and quality.

    5.Sales figures speak loud words: in 2010 we sold more than any other seed bank worldwide, while Waterboy managed to spread around... close to nothing.
    How sad. For proof of our turnover, you can ask the largest distributor in Spain: Plantasur. Our distributors sell incredible amounts of seeds from green house each year. We now have 15 large distributors, and it is estimated that more than 2000 shops carry our seeds around the world.
    Yes, Waterboy. You can see that all your false accusations in the media were your biggest mistake. And this is exactly what the old man in Thailand warned me about. It's called Jealousy.

    6. Just some more facts: I hired Waterboy between '95 and '98 and, like his father stated a few times, he loves swimming but not working. And in this company Greenhouse, we work.
    Because of his poor performance we had complains about germination, low stock and no customer service. And in '98 we kicked him out of the company for stealing clones. Later on Luca, his ex-partner, told me he took those clones to Switzerland.

    7.Shantibaba states everywhere that I don't have my original mother plants because he thinks that if you repeat this enough times, people will start to believe it. Bullshit. Also in this instance it's the other way around: during the raid in Switzerland in 2001, when Shantibaba went to prison, he lost all his material except Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze. Then, after another bust, roughly 2 years after the first one, he came out of prison; and he started from the beginning, growing up seeds from Green House F1 stock to select new mothers. Then he lost everything again: in 2007 he got busted again, and was forced to start all over for the third time; with the result that the seeds he sells are now inferior F2 genetics.

    Due to the bust of 2007, in 2008 he could not sell any seeds; he had to select new mothers and start all over from scratch. If he would have those mothers, he would have delivered the seeds to his distributors (you would assume).
    I asked 'the Nose', our friend in Amsterdam, how many packs Shantibaba sold in Holland (because he is his distributor). You know what he said? 'He did not sell a single pack in 2008'. I couldn't believe this, so I asked again: 'Really'? 'Not one' he replied. Shanti Blablablabla. Green House did more than a million that year, and this was only in Holland.

    Then in 2009-2010 Shantiblabla's Spanish partner Carullo walked out on him, and he had no access left to his own F1 genetics. Carullo himself sent a letter about this matter to the Spanish cannabis associations. So in 2009 and 2010 Shantiblabla wasn't able to deliver any seeds. Again.
    Carullo specified in his letter Shantiblabla's production technique: one single male used to pollinate 10 different female strains, all outdoors, with the result that all his genetics became very similar to one another.

    So Waterboy, if you are such a great grower, why do you still have germination problems? They are all over the icmag forum.
    The reason is that you sell old crap. And please stop fooling your online friends by first selling a pack for 200 Dollars and then giving them 3 seeds for free. What a scam. It's a pity that some inexperienced people still think breeding cannabis is rocket science.
    And Waterboy, what about Neville? Is he really working with you? How funny. I hear completely different stories about his presently bad situation. I don't want to speak bad about Neville. Weren't you the guy that didn't want to work with him? And didn't he call you 'daddy's kid' when you stepped out of our olive project at the last moment? You and I know Neville left already in 2003 to Perth under strange circumstances; his Grand Jury indictment was withdrawn. So how are you working together?
    He has been in Australia for 5 years. Taking advantage of his situation right now is very bad. In Holland we call this 'fucking with somebody else's dick'. Or are you paying him to use his name, like you did with Howard Marks? By the way, did poor Howard have to give away most of his film-rights away to you for some cash?
    But this is your way of doing things, isn't it?

    How come that when I was working with Neville, between 1994 and 2001, I got no other strains from him than Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze? Well, because he only had Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze left from his time at Sensi Seeds.
    Since 1992 Neville did no breeding work at all, as we, the real breeders, know. Until 1998 Neville was just growing pot with the guys who now have the only medical license in Holland: the Bedrocan crew.

    Waterboy, what you keep stating is completely false: you claim that nobody else has the original plants of SSH and NH. Bullshit again. Neville gave them to the people in Tilburg and Breda who are still working with it. Neville gave it to the Bedrocan crew so now the SSH is in the pharmacies all over The Netherlands; Neville gave it to the Nose; Neville gave it to the crazy bitch; Neville gave it to Wendy, who was working for him at one point; and Neville gave it to Misha and Paris. So it's all over the place.
    Actually, Neville himself lost everything in 2002 by a raid on his house in Bemel.
    In the last 9 years I got nothing from him, and you claim you are working with him right now? Shanti Blablablablablablablabla. It's exactly as Howard Marks stated already: 'Shantibaba only uses my name'.

    You claim to be the nice guy, so good for our cannabis world. Fourteen years of talking bad about Greenhouse. This is what we call King Arjan Syndrome.

    If you are such a nice guy, why don't you give your mother plants away? You state everywhere that you never gave your plants away. Strange for a guy who pretends he's not in for the money. Don't you get sick of telling that story to everyone? You keep repeating that I am only in for the money, but the reality is that over the years I donated many of my original mothers to people who deserved them.
    Few examples: I donated the Great White Shark to many growers, and the White Rhino to the Houseplant crew in Madrid. I also gave the Arjan's Haze 1 and Arjan's Haze 3 to growers in Bilbao and in Barcelona.

    Also, Shanti Blablabla: weren't you part of the blow-up in Switzerland, where you made 7 million in three years time? Many say that when the people of Switzerland were finally getting close to legalization, you and a few others ruined it all, by exporting hundreds of kilos. And after that move, you bought yourself a nice resort in Bali and retired, talking only bullshit over the Internet. Or was it your father handling the Internet business while you were in prison? I heard that you were still answering emails from the can. LOL.

    Telling everyone that you are not in for the money is ridiculous, when you got so much cash on your bank accounts. But I can understand, it must be frustrating to see the rise to success of Greenhouse after you left.
    Because you claim that you left yourself! Must be even more painful then...

    Keep having the King Arjan Syndrome? Do you want to be me? Or what else is you problem?
    If you are such a nice guy, why are you putting immature movies on Youtube, like 'Greenhouse Investigation' and the other one?

    And why you flag off my videos, like you did with the Great Cannabis Cup Crop video in 2006? Does it hurt that bad that I get 600.000 hits per year on a movie and you only get a few thousands? Do you realize you look like a fool? Think of the time when you let Jesse re-write the history about the Haze, on TYU magazine. You keep asking other people to write your stories. When will you grow up man? At least write the stories yourself.
    Please, use your energies to make seeds that actually germinate. This would be already a major accomplishment for you.
    Incredibly, I also heard you are a strain hunter now. LOL!
    You claim to be searching for strains in Indonesia. What?
    Maybe we should both show the stamps in our passports. My passport is full with stamps from all over the world; and yours is full of shit from Bali and Australia, where you keep flying business class with all the money you made in Switzerland.

    Greenhouse represents up to 50% of the market In Holland, Spain, England, Italy, and in many more countries. In most shops it works like this: for every GH pack sold, one pack is sold from all other companies together. Just call any growshop in Spain, or ask large distributors like Basil Bush or Plantasur and you will have an idea of the volume of seeds we sell compared to Shantiblabla.

    Should I waste a few more words on Waterboy? All right...

    Here is the final proof. Shantiblabla claims he was running my facility. Maybe he forgot about the footage I made back in 1996, when I was teaching him how to water the plants and how to hang a few lamps. LOL.
    Should I put this on Youtube? Or is this too humiliating?

    Where is your footage, Shantiblabla? Are you going to show again and again that old footage that we have been watching since 2001? It's the one about the large commercial glasshouses in Switzerland; the ones you gave away to Jesse. Probably you don't have much else to show, simply because you are not growing anymore. Or maybe you have 10 lights somewhere where you let somebody else make new F1's from my seeds.

    You cry that I had a fall-out with all of my partners; but again, you just turn things around. Didn't you have an Austrian guy as a partner before me? And then me? And then Luca? And then Neville? Isn't that 4 people in 10 years? And what about 3 wives in 10 years? Making children from different mothers: is that building relationships? No, it is not, Shanti Blablabla.

    My wife and I are together 26 years. My partners Olaf, Joachim and Franco are still the same. So why are you telling stupid lies about myself and my partners on the forums? It's called jealousy; it's called frustration.

    Oh yeah, you say 'make sure you don't make feminized seeds, because that's for fake seed companies'. What arrogance! As we know, you have never bred one plant in your life!
    You, Shanti Blablabla, only breed for the 'elite' growers of the forums. But you don't care about the small growers in Tokyo, Hong Kong or Italy, the ones that thanks to my feminized seeds are able to grow safer, and more.
    And what about the black people in Africa? Thanks to my feminized seeds they now get ten times more value for their crops, they can finally buy medicines and a mosquito net, and finally send their kids to school. But you don't care for none of these people probably.

    Well, it's a pity that a guy like you, who claims he is so important to our world, with all his money, is not actually helping poor people.
    The Greenhouse Foundation on the contrary cares: we pay school fees for 200 children, we built houses in Africa and India for people in need, and we are busy with new project every year. We don't advertise our Foundation because we don't want to put growers at risk, and we don't need to profit from our charitable actions.

    I just ask you, for once, Shanti Blablabla a.k.a. Waterboy: do something good with all your money instead of making stupid Youtube movies about Green House. Stop insulting my best friend Franco, a guy that has shown more dedication to the plant in one day than you can show in your whole life. And stop writing PM's to my staff, it's hilarious!

    So, tell me: what will you copy next? Are you going to write a book like Mr. Nice? Is this the reason why you're hanging out with him: to get all the contacts? What about you claiming to have invented the old strain called Red Devil? You probably forgot that I got those seeds 22 years ago from a guy called Richard Davis, from California. By a huge coincidence I've met him again, when I was attending the first American cannabis trade-show in L.A. (where you didn't have enough balls to show up). He says 'Hello"!

    I could go on and on with more of this, but I have better things to do and I don't want to completely embarrass waterboy.

    The Green House is a team and could not exist with the input of many people. It's not a one man show.

    Sorry Scott, but you keep writing hate mail. It's inevitable that one day it will all come back to you. Enjoy, this is your day.


    Arjan

    King of Cannabis

    Creator of worlds leading Coffeeshops.

    Creator of the best Seed Company in the world.

    Breeder of many champion strains.

    Winner of more than 100 cups worldwide.

    Inventor of colored cannabis seeds.

    Creator of the first DNA profiles on commercial seeds.

    Creator of the first terpenes profiles.

    Creator of the first grow movies on Youtube for the general public.

    Creator of Strain Hunters documentaries, website and forum community.

    Creator of the first easy-to-use and strain-specific 1-component cannabis feeding.

    Creator of the first germination-checking seed selector.


    PS: Just a small reminder, dear Shantiblabla, concerning what you stated about companies creating feminized seeds: 'that's for a bunch of morons who cannot breed, and I will never sell feminized seeds because is bad for the planet'....

    Let's see if you can hold true to your own words.
    __________________
    Nobody wants to plant the corn,everybody wants to raid the barn.
  • spacemanspaceman Civilized worm Posts: 8,537
    edited September 2011
    wow i cant believe i read all that what a bunch of garbage, he said she said bullshit.


    "Some of you guys reading this, especially on the icmag forum, must be really confused by now. Well, let me give you some more facts about the sales, because sales are a measure of efficiency and quality."

    what abunch of crap quality lol... we smoke you down arjan king of cannabis, you need better weed bra cause you lost sight.... fuck em all free the seed!
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
  • a_goodman Posts: 1,313
    edited September 2011
    i liked this one..
    Creator of the best Seed Company in the world
    but i learned that from his..
    Creator of Strain Hunters documentaries
    thankfully there are such great documents to fill us in on whos the best ;)

    so..if so you were on strainhunters which one would you be?
    ..and what would be your cannabis destination?...
    [CENTER][url=http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=197&yearVar=2004&issueVar=January/February]!!!Be aware of the three headed monster!!!

    General Key to Foliar Symtoms of Mineral Deficiencies in Plants
    also containing Tenative General Key to Foliar Symptoms of Mineral Toxicities in Plants





    Dolphins, eskimos, who cares? It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap.
    [/CENTER]
  • spacemanspaceman Civilized worm Posts: 8,537
    edited September 2011
    the strange thing is dude thinks selfed seeds are a good idea...where did the other half of my plant go? believe this seedy bizz, a honest quality dealer would be nice...
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
  • amradamrad Member Posts: 92
    edited September 2011
    It all started in 1983 when I met a very inspired man in Thailand, a true guru. One of the main things this great man taught me was to always believe in myself, to strive to achieve goals in my life, and to create a peaceful harmony in your body and mind so you can enjoy life to the maximum.
    He was a very old man when I met him in the jungle of Thailand, where he was doing a lot of charitable work such as working with heroine addicts.
    I only spent a week with him but I learned so much that it would take a book to explain the depth of this man; he said that if I would believe in myself I could be part of something very beautiful.
    He looked at me and said: 'The world is going to be destroyed by humans.' I was only 18 years old, it was 1983; but I saw something in his eyes and I believed in him. So I asked: 'what can I do?' He looked at me and said: 'It's all in the Cannabis Plant'.
    Then he went on explaining to me about how this plant could overthrow pharmaceuticals, chemicals and even governments because of its power.
    I looked at him and thought maybe he was crazy; but at the same time I felt by looking in his eyes that he was dead serious. He looked at me and said: 'You are young and strong, I want you to go back and dedicate your life to this plant'. After seeing him curing heroine addicts with cannabis I was convinced. Heroin is one of the worst addictions to cure, but the plant could win.
    Lord loving fuck a duck!!!
    This guy is so full of bullshit !!!
    Where in Thailand was this guru did he have a name? If he spent a week telling arjan what a great guy he was, he surely would have remembered his name! What a egotistical freak. I really as a Buddhist resent him using Arjan which is very similar to Ajahn meaning teacher, ego on legs. But other than that it does make for a humorous read LOL
  • Sicarii Stoner Posts: 400
    edited September 2011
    Days of our lives pales in comparison to this shit
    peace sicarii
  • AlchemistAlchemist No need to panic Posts: 412
    edited September 2011
    hahaha, this arjan guy really cracks me up! lol he actually may think that he is gods gift to cannabis industry.

    sinserly

    Alchemist

    creator of internet sarcasm
    creator of perfect pot of coffee
    creator of phlegm

    and more....
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