dont now whats going on

[cangrejo]

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0629.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0630.jpg
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http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0627.jpg
i havent feed them for a few weaks, its hard to belive but its like this.

when they get dry i will wash the roots properly


thanks in advice

[Springs]

Is there food in the soil?

How many weeks into flower did you stop feeding?

[Monseigneur Stroganoff]

too much evaporation
transpiration and stomata shuts

high ec, dry medium, low atmospheric humidity?
do not flush but lower the ec a little,

idk

we need more info

[Monseigneur Stroganoff]

my guess is that you have your fan on high speed wich make the atmospheric humidity very low. Even if your hygrostat say a number the air is pulled so quick out of your tent(?) that there is almost no contact... this make the combo; dry medium, low humidity and too much light

the problem leafs on the lower is from this stress + you not giving it any food
make shure you wet the whole medium everytime you water

[cangrejo]

thank you very much indeed

[Monseigneur Stroganoff]

i was just shooting from the hips, but it seems to me like it is something to do with water transport

come back tell us more

[Green Supreme]

I have seen Graefruits claw up like that from too much nutes. Peace GS

[vapor]

if phos is toxic to plant at point does it ever come out of a claw, has anyone ever seen this, interesting points strogie////

[vapor]

some interesting thought on phos\
"But, let's not over-generalize. More accurately, phosphorus does move in soil...but usually it is so slow and in such small amounts that for all practical purposes we simply say it is immobile. Here is an example of some, but not a lot of movement: Phosphorus was topdressed annually on a commercial apple orchard in the state of Washington at a rate of 80 pounds per acre P2O5. The soil was a fine sandy loam. After 17 years...and 17 applications... the zone of greatest enrichment by far was the top one inch of soil and accumulation below 12 inches was minor. Some movement of phosphorus was detectable to two feet. But this isn't much mobility compared to nitrogen that would be mostly gone after just one growing season. "
http://www.ipni.net/ppiweb/agbrief.nsf/5a4b8be72a35cd46852568d9001a18da/47a5420ea9f5801c8525690b0056fca1!OpenDocument

[c-ray]

interesting.. why mycorrhizae is key

[Riddle78]

learning mode on...

[cangrejo]

recording mode on.............

thanks to all, later new pics

[Rainha Ginga]

Hola Cangrejo

If this is not understandable in English, tell me and I'll explain in Spanish


I know this problem , but I do not know the solution. I remember years ago, Alex went crazy with this. We came to the conclusion that it was something due to the substrate that we used.
Now I have had the same problem but only with a small plant. Luckily she is still small and I think surely she will die within a few days, I have tried to remove as much soil as possible, until you see healthy roots. I put new soil and no fertilizers and give a few drops of water only in the new soil. These last two days the plant seems to be better.

luck!

[Monseigneur Stroganoff]

Water vapor is not evaporating, so water is not being drawn up from the root zone...and neither are any nutrients. If nutrients are not being taken up not getting the food they need to be healthy, so high temperatures and low humidity therefor both cause fast transpiration. Fast transpiration means your plants will be taking up and using lots of water (and nutrients). This is fine, unless you were feeding your plants strong to begin with. Your plants can only handle so much fertilizer within a specific period of time. So if you now have warm temperatures, low humidity, and fast transpiration rates you may find your plants are using a little too much fertilizer a little too quickly. Leaf tip burn is usually a sign of this. But i dont think it is phosporus tox as vapor is hinting on. If it was there would be burned tips and a total different look on the plant, but i could be wrong. If there is any tox i suspect it to be nitrogen wich i assume you all be thinking. The nitrogen could have been stored up in vegative and have now difficult getting rid of it. The new growth not the old will claw. The color will be off(?), it will appear somewhat lifeless, not dead. Just bland and the leaves will have a sandpaper feel to them they will not feel like normal healthy leaves... they will be drier. That is the result of increased transpiration and the plants inability to replace the lost moisture due to a damaged vascular system. Nitrogen toxicity can be seen give the appearance of very dry conditions in newer growth, almost as if there was a drought, which is from increased transpiration and reduced moisture/nutrient uptake due to plant vascular damage. which may show a burning effect, but not always. "the claw" look will be seen on new growth and fan leaves, normally the upper fans leaves. When you have a high concentration of nutrients in solution in the root medium compared to lower levels found in the plant’s tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the roots in order to fix the ppm imbalance. Back off on the amount and frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips and hairs which then creates another set of problems such as nutrient deficiencies. This is one teory

Another teory could be the temperature. The plant is losing water via it’s leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by cupping or rolling (up or down) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is plants outside on a hot summer day high noon with low soil moisture levels, the leaf blade will roll in and the plant will take on a greyish green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal the leaf blade will be flat. When a plant is curling under its transpiration is slowing down, if the curling is up the transpiration is full speed

Concentrate on developing a large root system with myhcoriza as cray mentioned is one way of controlling it. An effective root system will go a long way to prevent leaf curling by supplying sufficient moisture for good plant health. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently destroy leaves and root system. And i am thinking of you that growing outside with black pots in 40 degress(105 F)! you basicly cook them and make it difficult for new roots to develop. Also coupled with with overwatering the roots are not getting enough oxygen which creates an anerobic condition causing root decline(?) and root rot with the end result showing up as leaf stress, stunted growth, and in severe cases, death. And with gnats and spider mites crawling around i could not think of a more lost situation...

but i dont know shit about this situation. I was hoping for some more information from cangrejo

[Rainha Ginga]

good info Stroganoff

with very different temperatures I have had the same problem. In the very hot summer and in a cold winter. on the island our humidity is always high, especially for those who live by the sea. we have an average of 70 or 75% maybe more.
in the last year I have seen plants of different people with the same problem, never, none of them had seen this, and they are people who take many years growing.

I still think this is something that comes in the soil that we buy.

[kreditor-nemesis]

Could u please answer,stroganoff? Im willing to give diplomacy a go.

[Green Supreme]

Your name would lead to believe otherwise. Peace GS

[cangrejo]

thank you rainha and DR stroganoff
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0632.jpg
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[cangrejo]

the temperature of the romm its now 24 whith the ligth on,70%hrm i put the fan at 50% speed.
all the plants are almost dry.

no more black containers 4 outdoor promise

thanks again

[kreditor-nemesis]

Your name would lead to believe otherwise. Peace GS

Use another place to air your discrepancy. Peace GS

[vapor]

I am not sayin this is phos, aswell i understand what you are sating strogie. If i have learned anything when it comes to cannabis the answer to these problems are usually combinations of a few things.
One thing i would mention is i get this here and there aswell, i live in a rain forest, i look at my humindity and it says 100 percent most days{all winter}, around week 4 of flower i start useing a dehumid in the dark cycle.Basically when the night time comes the clouds roll in and it is wet up here.My temps are around 70-75, aswell my plants medium drys out every 2 days/ i still see this, and have here and there for years and have never really had a answer that makes me feel whole...part of me has a a feeling about root space/dead root bits. did we ask cangrejo how often he waters his plants?/ how often they dry out, they look like small pots things happen much faster in small pots. peace looking forward.

[Rainha Ginga]

maybe you should use biger pots. I think very small pots, and perhaps too many or heavy nutrients.

with the pictures I see is not the same problem I thought with your description

[cangrejo]

I am not sayin this is phos, aswell i understand what you are sating strogie. If i have learned anything when it comes to cannabis the answer to these problems are usually combinations of a few things.
One thing i would mention is i get this here and there aswell, i live in a rain forest, i look at my humindity and it says 100 percent most days{all winter}, around week 4 of flower i start useing a dehumid in the dark cycle.Basically when the night time comes the clouds roll in and it is wet up here.My temps are around 70-75, aswell my plants medium drys out every 2 days/ i still see this, and have here and there for years and have never really had a answer that makes me feel whole...part of me has a a feeling about root space/dead root bits. did we ask cangrejo how often he waters his plants?/ how often they dry out, they look like small pots things happen much faster in small pots. peace looking forward.

3 diferent pots 3 litres,5,5 litres an 7 litres

the small pot drys in 2-3 days 5,5 pot 5 days an the 7 pot 6 -7 days


thank you very much vapor and ginga

[vapor]

whats your medium?
that seems like a long time for things to dry out, my big plants 2,3 days with 10-15 gallons and they are dry, i am in coco with a bit of worm casting for organic matter/

[vapor]

today i went and looked through my room i have a few of the spade uzbekis doing the claw thing but for the most part none really untill i get to a plant back in the corner that seems not to dry out at the same rate as the others always seems wet{slower to dryout}, and it is doing the claw.

[Monseigneur Stroganoff]

I would
-rise the light little bit
-lower the nutrients little bit
-rise the temperature(28c/82f) so the fan goes slower
-dont let the night temp go under 20c/68f
-turn off ocillating fans or not direct on plants
-do not give them foilar sprays
-realise that the damaged leafes will not be fixed and train the eye on the other parts of the plants and how they respond to your actions
-see that the plants are isolated from the underside so medium temps are around 22c/72f. Cold cement floors is a classic. Also cracks in the walls or floor can make cold spots. Spread the inline air
-water the pots from the underside idk

I would never let coco go dry, soil is a total different thing

why cant the plant move the water or the nutrients out of the leafes? What happends with clones?

[cangrejo]

I would
-rise the light little bit done
-lower the nutrients little bitdone
-rise the temperature(28c/82f) so the fan goes slower i just can turn slower the fan
-dont let the night temp go under 20c/68f the light its on from 7pm to 7 am
-turn off ocillating fans or not direct on plantsdone, i thing this was one of my biggest mistakes, the day i eater i use to put the fan straigth to the plants and the central fan at max power.......
-do not give them foilar spraysok
-realise that the damaged leafes will not be fixed and train the eye on the other parts of the plants and how they respond to your actionsok
-see that the plants are isolated from the underside so medium temps are around 22c/72f. Cold cement floors is a classic. Also cracks in the walls or floor can make cold spots. Spread the inline air
-water the pots from the underside idkok

I would never let coco go dry, soil is a total different thing

why cant the plant move the water or the nutrients out of the leafes? What happends with clones?i dont know, theres seeds too

thanks again

[cangrejo]

some of the plants they geting better, later ill put some pictures
thanks

[Riddle78]

3 diferent pots 3 litres,5,5 litres an 7 litres

the small pot drys in 2-3 days 5,5 pot 5 days an the 7 pot 6 -7 days


thank you very much vapor and ginga

6-7 days??? too much,
root rot maybe?

[Riddle78]

What happends with clones?

this are seeds... medium: cannapro

[vapor]

is it coco with organic matter added or just coco, i dont think coco shold be wet for that long/// i think you are having issues with to wet to long///

[vapor]

http://www.growell.co.uk/canna-terra-professional-soil-mix.html

is it this stuff?
does it have nutrients in it already?

[cangrejo]

Yes is this one, but y only use this on a few plants most of them seeds and they still on the grow box, what i want to say is that it happens to me whit 2 diferent soils,canna and plagron

[vapor]

so are you using nutrients ontop of what is in the soil?

[vapor]

"If you give your plants ammonium based nutrients they may show NH4+ toxicity, which will show a smaller plant growth and lesions that occur on stems and roots, leaf margins that will roll downward. Also the big fan leaves will have “the claw” look. The tips will point down but the leaves will stay up as if when you bend your fingers downwards. Leaves can be twisted when growing… mainly new growths. Roots will be under developed along with the slowing of flowering. Yields will be decreased, because to much nitrogen in early stages of flowering slows down bud growth. Water uptake is slowing down from the vascular breakdown of the plants as well. Too much potassium and nitrogen will lock out calcium as well."

[cangrejo]

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0646.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0647.jpg
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http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0652.jpg

they look better
yesterday i water them whith:encimes 50%,alga bloom50%green sensation50%

[cangrejo]

so are you using nutrients ontop of what is in the soil?

yes plagron bio as a nutrients, and the soil plagron all mix thats for the clones

the soli for the seeds canna pro, the one that you put up.

[cangrejo]

"If you give your plants ammonium based nutrients they may show NH4+ toxicity, which will show a smaller plant growth and lesions that occur on stems and roots, leaf margins that will roll downward. Also the big fan leaves will have “the claw” look. The tips will point down but the leaves will stay up as if when you bend your fingers downwards. Leaves can be twisted when growing… mainly new growths. Roots will be under developed along with the slowing of flowering. Yields will be decreased, because to much nitrogen in early stages of flowering slows down bud growth. Water uptake is slowing down from the vascular breakdown of the plants as well. Too much potassium and nitrogen will lock out calcium as well."

ok more or less....

what should i do know ??? they got better a litle bit

thanks a lot vapor

[vapor]

So it seem if there is nutrients in the soil already{i think they are quite high from what i recall reading}
As well you are watering nutrients this is too much. do you have a ec pen?
How many weeks are you of flowering? you may just be far along to just be adding water.
Me i would get a medium with no nutrients, and use your plagron bloom. try not to go above 1200 ppm feed, water, water. Every planty is different so keep your eyes peeled and you will get better as we grow.

Myself i use the same mix for flower and veg.

[otto]

I've seen results like this from overwatering/underwatering/overfeeding/underfeeding/too high temps.....

[cangrejo]

So it seem if there is nutrients in the soil already{i think they are quite high from what i recall reading}
As well you are watering nutrients this is too much. do you have a ec pen?
How many weeks are you of flowering? you may just be far along to just be adding water.
Me i would get a medium with no nutrients, and use your plagron bloom. try not to go above 1200 ppm feed, water, water. Every planty is different so keep your eyes peeled and you will get better as we grow.

Myself i use the same mix for flower and veg.

sorry for answer that late

i was watering whith out nutrients,because the soil its got nutrients.
i dont have a ec pen , but i will ask for it.

im like 40 days on flowering, yes to late........

7 diferent genetic in the same grow, its kind of a mess, but its the only way to discart that i have.

i use allways plagron soil, but they run out so illl buy the canna one, never again


thanks so much

[cangrejo]

I've seen results like this from overwatering/underwatering/overfeeding/underfeeding/too high temps.....

yes it looks like it

thanks otto

[cangrejo]

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/CaNgReJoS_2008/IMGP0669.jpg
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