fulvic vs humic acid?

[dpn]

Greetings good to see this wonderful forum up and running again :smoke2: If you were on a budget and could only buy a bottle of fulvic or humic acid which one would be the most beneficial to an organic farmer :farm: ?

[Old Toby]

IIRC fulvic acid is the lighter of the Humates, while leonardite derived humic acid is the full range, some break down into fulvics. Generally you get a lot more/gallon with the Humic Acid.

Old Toby

[c-ray]

I heard from a guy who makes humic acid that it is easy to make your own, just get some distilled water and add enough citric acid to drop the pH to 3.5 then add a bunch of granular humates (leonardite) and let it do it's thing for a while...I was going to try it but I was not able to find the leonardite around these parts, they used to carry it as garden treasure brand at wally world but no more in canada...maybe someone wants to try it out and report back

[The Cannarchist]

They used to sell "Leodarnite" at Wallymart......Cheap

[dpn]

So the humic acid would probably be the one? Ive never seen leonardite around the uk only AN bottled fulvic or humic acid.

[c-ray]

the leonardite might be available in garden stores

as for the bottled humic and fulvic acids, I was using advanced nutrients as their's seemed to be the most concentrated

[dpn]

We dont get much variety from our garden stores just the basic things like bone, blood and kelp meal. I have seen GH leonardite but it was expensive, be alot cheaper getting the bottled humic/fulvic concertrate.

[dpn]

Yeah the stuff down the local hydro store was Advanced Nutrients grandma eggys humic or fulvic acid. Ill find out the percentages in a bit.....:fro:

[crew]

I use a powdered Humic Acid that I get from a guy on ebay. Turns out he's not far from me, and when I need some, I just call and go pick it up. His is leonardite based, and made for agricultural use. Buys in bulk and resells a little. I use it in my brewed teas, and in watering cans, etc. If I'm hand watering the garden, flowers or other, its in the mix. After a few years of use, I can tell the difference in my garden soil.

[crew]

this is it
http://cgi.ebay.com/HUMIC-ACID-WATER-SOLUBLE-POWDER-MAKES-128-GALLONS_W0QQitemZ3981801127QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4355 5QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Dman]

Hi crew,

Do you incorporate this powdered Humic Acid right into your soil mix? if so, at what ratio? ;)

[sky high]

Hey folks, hey Dman, my bro!

FWIW, I never put amendments in the soil other than innoculants like beneficials/mycorrihzaes, etc. Ditto with fertilizers.

I think of it like what they do to that Miracle-Gro (Blow) crap where they "fortify" the soil. Put yer plants in there and have ANY problems and you (they) are TOAST. In short..ONCE IT'S IN THERE YOU CAN'T GET IT OUT OR STOP IT FROM KICKIN IN. "Flushing" only activates more of the timed release, and no matter what you do you can't control the levels of nutes bein' slammed at your plants.

I still believe that composted/guano/home-brewed teas are the best way to build a microherd and unleash it on yer soils.

As far as the original question (Sorry I got off track. Blame D man and his incredibly tasty/stoney "Aftershock" strain!), the amount of humic/fulvic varies WIDELY amongst the products on the hydro store/garden center shelves.

Case in point: GH "Diamond Nectar"- Folks....you can PISS more fulvic acid out than this stuff has in it! don't have the bottle here in front of me..but the concentration is WAYYYY down there around .005% or .0005%. Not sure which.,.but it don't matter cus no matter what..that isn't much fulvic either way.

I think the good stuff is made by Milliennium or Botanicare.

Millennium Ruby Fulvic is derived from leonardite and has 5% fulvic in it. Yes, 5%. MUCH more than GH Diamond Pee. A ruby red/clean liquid.

Another good one, IMO, is Biohumic from Botanicare. This is a humic/fulvic mix...with 30% humics..and I believe 5% fulvic. Black looking stuff though...so may not go well in hydro apps.

FWIW, I skip over most of those...preferring to go to the source and mix it up myself. All 3 of the following are KICK ASS amendments. IMO. All are 1000 mesh screened/micronized...meaning that they are INCREDIBLY fine powders that will dissolve completely in water with just a bit of stirring. Be VERY careful and don't SNORT this stuff though...or ya might grow hair in weird places!

I've used the following 3 products with great success for about a year or so now....

for humates/humics

http://www.groworganic.com/item_F520_MicroHume2LbJar.html

2-0-0 I believe.

For phosphorous injection at the onset of bloom

http://www.groworganic.com/item_F2130_MicroPhos2LbJar.html

0-2-0 I believe

This, IMO, is a killer trace minerals package.

http://www.groworganic.com/item_F039_AzomiteMicronized2lb.html


And lastly...I'm thinking I'm gonna try this one also:

http://www.groworganic.com/item_ISA200_MycoMineralsSoilAmendment4lbJar.html


and if dat ain't e-nuff to digest...a whole page of soil innoculants are here.

http://www.groworganic.com/cgy_350.html

good luck folks.

[crew]

Hey Dman, I always use it mixed in water. But that's something I have considered, but never did. It takes so little per gallon, I don't have any idea how much it would take. Will try to find out though.
As far as not being able to flush it out, I personally wouldn't want to. Its not a fertilizer. It helps the plants uptake nutrients, as far as I understand it. The product I use is leonardite, with no other goodies added. As you might be able to pick up, I'm a tight ass when it comes to what stuff goes into my soil/grow medias. I try to cut through the marketing hype, and use the active ingredients, which can usually be gotten at much less. Still trying to get the sunshine mix down, lol.
peace, crew

[marigyp]

Maybe one of you who are more experienced could answer a question. I have been running an experiment using alfalfa teas. I add one cup of Canadian peat moss to a 1/2 cup of alfalfa pellets per gallon of tea. I was led to understand that the bacterial action of the tea release the fulvic and humic acids that naturally occur in the peat. I know my plants sure love the tea.

[sky high]

crew..

Humic is a great amendment..but like anything else..if you put too much in/on..it can be deterimental to the plant.

To clarify since it appears you may not have grasp the meaning of what I was trying to get across...my "flush" comment was directed at the fact that if you put amendments IN your mix..you cannot usually minimize their effects by "flushing" the medium. In fact, chances are that introducing more water will release more amendments...etc. into the mix.

good growing all....

[crew]

sky, To clarify since it appears you may not have grasp the meaning of what I was trying to get across...
the powdered product that I use and am somewhat familiar with is like what you refered to, very solubile. I have used it stronger than suggested, and I could see it come out the bottom. When you soak down a medium, and the runoff is as dark as what goes in top, you could, in theory, leach the amendment out. Enough water through the top and you could probably leach out all the goodies, and thankfully so at times. Especially when you cant remeber if you put in "x" or not, and a few days later, the plants tell you "too much".
Thanks for clarifying though. I appreciate it.
peace, crew

[Dman]

Hi sky high/crew,

Thanks for the info and links my friends. :)

crew>>> FYI...I just IP'd a few bags of that HA off your ebay link. I'll play with it and see what happens. Any info on ratios (wet/dry) of this stuff would be great Bro? ;)

[kisanth]

Hey sky high or anyone else that might know...

Why does it say "Caution: Do not use past the begining of the bloom phase of growth." on the back of the Millenium Ruby Fulvic bottle?

Are you not supposed to feed flowering plants Fulvic acids and why?

TIA,
k.

[GrowGreen]

Millennium makes some really good products, but I don

[kisanth]

<<but I don’t recommend them for the novice grower.>> GG

So, just what are you trying to say? Hmmm..... lol JJ

<<It makes the plants drink tons of water.>> GG

Do you need to lower the TDS of the nute mix because of this? Uptake of more water means higher ppms in the root zone could lead to burn.?. Unless the RH was higher than 65% maybe?

Please enlighten us/me oh great GG.... :D

Feelin good right now hope you all are too.....
k.

[mjcannaboid]

http://www.ar.wroc.pl/~weber/kwasy2.htm says The percentage of the humus which occurs in the various humic fractions varies considerably from one soil type to another.
The humus of forest soils is characterized by a high content of fulvic acids while the humus of peat and grassland soils is high in humic acids.(see figure)
The humic acid / fulvic acid ratio usually, but not always, decreases with increasing depth.

sounds like an ideal situation would be to get a mixture if you can find it.

[joe6pack]

I like fulvic acid in my hydro res, as it's already ready to be used by the plant.

Humics are better in soil where they have time to break down.