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Flyer
12-04-2010, 06:08 AM
DIY Super Venturi! Easy to make step-by-step guide!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czczYnuM_w&feature=player_embedded

This video is to demonstrate the function of the venturi design. As you can see, this venturi is mounted to the outlet of the pump (Laguna 2400). The pressure ratios are always more favorable for drawing air when using the inlet side of the pump. In this application, I would estimate around a 25% increase in airflow from using the suction side of the pump. It took 1min 34sec to empty the sack estimated at 2.4ft^3. This gives me a flow rate of about 91 SCFH. I would say this test is accurate to about 15% of true airflow, with all of the margin for error coming from my mathematical estimation of the volume of the bag. On the inlet side of the pump (if the pump was modified to avoid cavitation with large amounts of air), I think figures around 110-120 SCFH would be expected. Bubble size would also be much smaller of course from being chopped up by a mesh or needle wheel as well.


The Super Venturi

Venturis are essential to the function of some important pieces of hydroponic equipment. Reservoir tanks and cloners can improve from the use of a good venturi.

It's sometimes thought that to get the ideal shapes of a venturi, one would need to use a lathe, or a CNC mill. These certainly can produce a perfect venturi, but most folks don't have those machines laying around.

The purpose of this thread is to show how you can make nearly ideal venturis in any size or pressure ratio and flow requirement from just a few basic hand tools. They are also very clear, so you can watch the bubbles.






The tools used:

Drill and Drill bits (dulled edges for drilling acrylic)
Heat gun (you could use anything that will heat acrylic up enough to make a soft place)
Hacksaw
Pen
Glue

The materials:
Acrylic tubing in sizes that slip over each other. This means get something with an OD that equals another tube's ID. Often this just means you can grab a tube, and then grab the next size up. Most acrylic tubes are $4-15 depending on size.


Let's start:

Take your inside tube and roll it in your fingers in front of the heat gun. Check often to see when it become soft. If you get it too warm, the acrylic bubbles and becomes more brittle.

When the tube becomes soft, pull on the tube, and it slowly begins to stretch. Pull steady and even.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=876&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=876)

It stretches out nicely if you're careful. Keep holding pressure on the stretched tube or it will bunch up when it shrinks back. The greater the size ratio between the diameter and the contracted diameter will determine how hard the venturi is able to suck. If you have a lot of head pressure to fight, you will need to really shrink it down. If you have very little head, a less aggressive contraction will enable you to draw air and cause less water flow restriction. Since they are so quick and easy to make, I would recommend just trying a few designs to see what works best for your application.
When you see the shape you desire, it's helpful to blow to help cool the plastic faster. Not entirely needed, but your arms will get tired if you decide to stretch tubes about 50 times in a row while experimenting.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=877&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=877)

You will end up with a stretched tube. Unless you are crazy like me, you will just have a single tube in the size you need. I tried this with so many tubes so I could be sure that this method works well on both small and large tubing. It worked fine with all wall thicknesses and sizes of tubing I tried.


http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=866&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=866)

The next step is to mark a circle around the smallest diameter point. This is the point with the highest fluid speed. This gives it the lowest pressure. Look for whichever end has the most rapid increase in diameter, and make this the direction the air will move towards. Drill holes around this point, and then tip the spinning drill to the side so it cuts an angled hole in the venturi. Making a drill bit dull before trying this will help to avoid cracking.


http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=863&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=863)

I used a 1/16" bit for the smallest tubes, and up to 5/32" for the larger tubes. Remember, area increases at the square of radius, so a small increase in bit size has big effect on what a hole is able to flow.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=878&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=878)

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=879&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=879)

Next, cut some of the acrylic tubing from the bigger tube, drill an air hole in it, and slide it over the smaller venturi tube. You could tap this hole and thread in a nipple, or glue in your airline or smaller tubing or whatever best suits your application. Run a bead of glue around the seams of the larger and smaller pipe. This reinforces it and makes it strong, along with sealing the housing.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=880&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=880)

To mount them, you could use quality chunk of silicone tubing/hose and clamps like red dragon skimmers, or epoxy a plumbing union to each end. I would avoid wanting to glue them in place, as that would limit your ability to make changes if you desired.

NOTE:
A venturi of this style will be able to draw more air than a pump can handle without cavitation. A needle valve to limit the incoming air will likely be needed. This type of venturi will cause less flow loss and be capable of injecting much more air than a flow-nozzle type of injector that is most often seen in hydroponics. In other words, your venturi won't be limiting the amount of water pressure you are able to pump anymore. You will be limited by how much air your pump can handle before it chokes.
Most people would want 1/2, 3/4, 1" and 1.25" acrylic tubes (1-1.25" used in video). 1" was $8 for 6ft and 1.25" was $10.50 for 6ft. Not really something I would consider to be a cost prohibitive material to work with for most people. I bought mine from a plastic supply store, but I've seen them for sale in hardware stores, craft supply stores, hobby shops, and other places.



Enjoy your new Venturi!

Flyer
12-04-2010, 07:05 AM
DIY PVC Pipe Venturi



Fast setting epoxy is used to fill the center pvc fitting. Once mixed 50/50 it will cure in approx 1-2 min. Immediately after it is cured it can be tooled, drilled, threaded, etc... I happened to have some on hand so that's what was used. I'm sure any rigid product that will cure throughout its entire volume could work as well.
3/4" PVC filled with epoxy
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=881&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=881)

Drilled 3/8" guide hole completely through then drilled both sides using a "Step Drill
Bit" in a drill press or lathe
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=882&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=882)

3/4" PVC Venturi and Step Drill Bit
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=883&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=883)
Finished PVC Venturi
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=885&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=885)
Showing epoxy
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=884&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=884)
Outline shows the internal work within this Venturi
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=886&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=886)
And here is one made from a solid piece of acrylic to show inside demensions.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=871&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=871)http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=870&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=870)http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=872&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=872)

Bobby Smith
12-04-2010, 07:48 PM
*Stupid Question Alert*

Does the end of the airline need to have access to air; i.e., does the end of that airline tubing need to come up out of the water?

Guessing yes, but I'd love some verification.

EDIT: nevermind, just set one up - my pump came with an attachment for an airline, so just set one up in my EZ 120.

Flyer
12-04-2010, 10:29 PM
*Stupid Question Alert*

Does the end of the airline need to have access to air; i.e., does the end of that airline tubing need to come up out of the water?


http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=874&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=874)


http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=875&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=875)

There are no stupid questions, always ask questions!

When the water passes through the orifice, it expands, increasing its velocity before it enters the channel section. Hence, an area of negative pressure is produced at the vacuum inlet port, which is the space between the channel section and the orifice.

If we run the small hose from the side of the venturi up out of the water and to a clean, filtered source, air will freely move down the small tube and into the water stream. This increases the amount of dissolved oxygen in the passing water.

Note: If you utilize CO² in your grow room, make sure you feed you venturi from outside air.

Flyer
12-04-2010, 10:45 PM
I have been told that people haven't been using venturi air injection due to the increased air noise. So I have come up with a solution to the air noise caused by the feed tube.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=869&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=869)

So here it is. Thick walled pvc pipe is best, schedule 40-80.

Bobby Smith
12-04-2010, 11:50 PM
Lol, funny you should mention that - set mine up in my EZ 120 using a 396GPH pump, and the noise it made was super annoying.........that said, I don't live in my grow room so I don't really care :)

Gonna go check on it right now and see how it's doing - thanks again for your help, appreciate it.

memyselfandi
12-05-2010, 01:30 AM
i use a air stone to kill the noise

memyselfandi
12-05-2010, 01:53 AM
i tried 2 design but not the same results as in the video

will post pic tomorrow

Flyer
12-05-2010, 06:34 AM
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=889&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=889)


http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Extruded-Plexiglass-Acrylic-Tubing

Flyer
12-05-2010, 08:05 AM
<17:53:06>
"memyselfandi" (client://7/CHQ8Hdx/cZ5k0KeMwex43eo5jEU=~memyselfandi): it would help a lot if there was measures from the first venturi


Per your request on Live chat, here is a calculator for building venturis'.

http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/venturi_flowmeter.cfm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9U5kI5MFgE&feature=player_embedded

memyselfandi
12-05-2010, 08:59 PM
I used an old venturi from a pump and test it, inspired on the info flyer posted i added a reductor and it as improved the air mixture

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=890&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=890)

This is a test made inspired on this post, much better then the upper one

i used a sauce bottle top and the silicon tip :)

i think acrylic is the solution.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=895&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=895)

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=896&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=896)


http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=891&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=891)

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=894&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=894)

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=892&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=892)

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=893&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=893)

Lundin
12-05-2010, 09:18 PM
good thinking!

cant wait to see what you guys pull out:up:

memyselfandi
12-06-2010, 01:12 AM
Found something, the amount off air suspend in that film as a trick,that's salt water so the water bubbles are smaller and stay suspend more time

Flyer
12-06-2010, 03:01 AM
Most high performance venturis will require some type of air regulation. This can easily be obtained from using a simple needle valve from a hardware store for about 3 dollars.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=901&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=901)

An even better way to regulate the air flow is by building a simple bypass manifold.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=902&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=902) http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=903&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=903)

If possible, I recommend the venturi is attached to the output side of your pump. If you do not have the head pressure required to create a vacuum from the output side of your pump, then it may be possible to put it on the inlet, if the air is highly regulated to keep the pump from cavitating.

If you are looking to get a new pump, I highly recommend a Danner. Danner makes some really reliable pumps that are energy efficient and high pressure. I use the Danner 18, 24 and 36. Head pressure is 8.5 to 10.5 psi.

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=900&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=900)

If you already own a Danner and insist on adding your venturi to the inlet side of the pump, you can purchase a fractional impeller to help with the extra cavitation.
http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=899&thumb=1 (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=899)

Bobby Smith
12-06-2010, 05:35 AM
Flyer, you really think that the harm of 1500PPM CO2 pumped into the water is greater than the benefit of the additional O2 being infused into the water?

Just curious, as I'm contemplating adding a venturi to my feed pump in my flower room (1500PPM CO2) and have no fresh air source to draw "clean" air from.

Thanks.

Flyer
12-06-2010, 06:09 AM
Flyer, you really think that the harm of 1500PPM CO2 pumped into the water is greater than the benefit of the additional O2 being infused into the water?

Just curious, as I'm contemplating adding a venturi to my feed pump in my flower room (1500PPM CO2) and have no fresh air source to draw "clean" air from.

Thanks.



The quick answer your question is yes.

Let's take a look at emitter aeroponics. Water is sprayed through air before coming into contact with plant roots. It is at this moment, the water has the highest amount of oxygen. Also, the roots hanging in air have the ultimate contact with available oxygen. Due to the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water, Pythium is rarely encountered and plants grow much faster in this healthier environment.

Not only do plants grow healthier and faster with increased dissolved oxygen, but their yield is increased as well. Wow, yield increase, just by simply adding oxygen. Better yet,12 to 34% increases in documented university studies.

Some helpful reading:

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=6091

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=6166

Bobby Smith
12-06-2010, 01:28 PM
So is that "yes, it's worth it" or "yes, it's not worth it".

I'm a touch confused.

As per your logic (and mine when thinking up the question), even if some additional CO2 gets into the water from the venturi, I'd think that super-oxygenated water to the rootzone would make up for it.

EDIT: just to be clear, 12 hours of the day would be 1500PPM CO2 air getting injected in, and half the day just "normal" air.

Flyer
12-06-2010, 10:37 PM
So is that "yes, it's worth it" or "yes, it's not worth it".

I'm a touch confused.

As per your logic (and mine when thinking up the question), even if some additional CO2 gets into the water from the venturi, I'd think that super-oxygenated water to the rootzone would make up for it.

EDIT: just to be clear, 12 hours of the day would be 1500PPM CO2 air getting injected in, and half the day just "normal" air.

Adding CO2 to the water will not help the roots and in fact will hurt them. Plants use CO2 when they photosynthesize, the process which results in the production of sugar. Photosynthesis occurs only in areas of the plant that receive light and contain chlorophyll, the source of plants' green color. It is absorbed through pores called stomata. Roots have no chlorophyll and don't ordinarily come in contact with light so they have no use for CO2.

Plants use the sugars they have manufactured as a source of fuel. Their metabolism is similar to the method used by animals. Sugars, which are hydrocarbons, are chemically "burned" in a controlled reaction that occurs when they are combined with oxygen. Energy is released and the waste product CO2 is created.

Both CO2 and oxygen dissolve in water. When water is saturated with CO2 it cannot absorb oxygen so the roots have no source of the element oxygen, which is needed for their metabolism. This weakens the roots and promotes the growth of anaerobic bacteria, which thrive in oxygen-free environments and attack roots.

When water in a reservoir is circulated, it releases the dissolved CO2 to the air and dissolves oxygen. That's why circulating water in a reservoir using a pump is beneficial to roots: It removes the CO2 and supplies the water with oxygen.

So, injecting high levels of CO² into your water supply will starve your roots essentially killing them.

Therefore, regardless of your device you use to put air into your water, it needs to have a fresh source of O². You need to be injecting fresh, filtered, air 24 hours a day into your water supply.

Bobby Smith
12-06-2010, 11:09 PM
Flyer, appreciate all your help and my apologies for getting a touch off-topic.

Flyer
12-06-2010, 11:13 PM
Flyer, appreciate all your help and my apologies for getting a touch off-topic.

No worries, I love looking at bubbles anyway.. :popcorn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzlL7ZiUKGY&feature=related

Lungus
12-07-2010, 02:34 AM
Plants use the sugars they have manufactured as a source of fuel. Their metabolism is similar to the method used by animals. Sugars, which are hydrocarbons, are chemically "burned" in a controlled reaction that occurs when they are combined with oxygen. Energy is released and the waste product CO2 is created.
If I am not mistaken plants "burn" CO2 during photosynthesis capturing a molecule of carbon,and releasing Oxygen as by-product. If the plants discarded CO2 as a waste product why would anyone add CO2 to their grow room? Or is this solely in the root zone where this reaction is taking place?

Happy Frog
12-07-2010, 03:49 AM
If I am not mistaken plants "burn" CO2 during photosynthesis capturing a molecule of carbon,and releasing Oxygen as by-product. If the plants discarded CO2 as a waste product why would anyone add CO2 to their grow room? Or is this solely in the root zone where this reaction is taking place?

Don't quote me on this because I did a LOT of drugs in Vietnam :joint: and my memory isn't what it used to be. Plants use CO2 during photosynthesis ( when light is on). That's why people sometimes add it to their grow enviroment to achieve optimum CO2 ppm levels. During this time they make oxygen. At night they use oxygen (cellular respiration) and create CO2 just like other living organisms.

Flyer
12-07-2010, 06:02 AM
If I am not mistaken plants "burn" CO2 during photosynthesis capturing a molecule of carbon,and releasing Oxygen as by-product. If the plants discarded CO2 as a waste product why would anyone add CO2 to their grow room? Or is this solely in the root zone where this reaction is taking place?

When the sun shines, plants take in Carbon Dioxide CO² as part of the process of converting sugars to plant food so they can grow. During the daylight hours, the plants give off Oxygen O².

During the night when the sun is not shining, the plants take in O² and give off CO². The plant reverses the process and uses the sugars it stored during the day to live.

It remains a mystery to me why people don't know the full process. They go around saying plants take in CO² and give off O², but never mention plants reverse the process at night and take in O² and give off CO².

(Thank you C-ray *wink*) :o

Lundin
12-10-2010, 02:24 AM
found out we had 3 of these

Flyer
12-11-2010, 06:37 AM
If building it isn't your thing, you can purchase one like this for 20 dollars.


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21WYPM832HL._SL500_AA300_.jpghttp://www.usspaparts.com/images/432701205.jpghttp://www.usspaparts.com/images/432701200.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EJXNXW/ref=asc_df_B001EJXNXW1349359?smid=A3MD0713A3NPNS&tag=nextagusmp0398186-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B001EJXNXW

http://www.usspaparts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=707_712

http://www.poolandspacentre.co.uk/parts/ozone_waterway_injector.html

CannaBotanica
07-12-2011, 03:52 AM
Just made my first venturi, thanks Flyer for the step-by-step, this thing is awesome!!!