A question on "Putting it all together..."

[hypnotoad]

Hi everyone,

First off, thanks for all the great info. There is a lot of good material on this forum, but I have a question.

While, I've read about Bokashi, fungi, EM, soil, and others by some great contributers like gojo, c-ray, and others, my question is: How do you put this all together in one program to grow oh say...some really good weed, or hell, even for my vegetable garden this spring?

Thanks Everyone,
HT

[Cannibal]

Compost.


For a good start on organic ganja growing try this simple recipe:

1 tbsp per gallon (of soil) blood meal
2 tbsp per gallon bone meal
1 tbsp per gallon kelp meal
1 tbsp per gallon dolomite lime

This was the first basic mix I used with excellent results.
very simple...........it will get you started.

keep it simple, cover the basic food groups, get a few grows under your belt and then you can decide for yourself how scientific you want to get.

[c-ray]

a simple way to start is to make up a neutral growing medium from 80% coco (GH or Canna brand are recommended), 10% worm castings, 10% perlite, some mycoapply, mycogrow or another good brand of mycorrhizae and maybe 1-2% of a source of calcium like dolomite, calcitic lime, crab shell, egg shell powder and/or lithothamnium algae and a little bit (0.5-1%) of a phosphorus source like colloidal soft rock phosphate, high P bat guano and/or rock phosphate

you can throw some bokashi in there but only use a small amount (up to 5%) and add an equal amount of perlite

then start making teas and go for it

in veg you can start with an aerated compost teas using a recipe like the one on http://microbeorganics.com to generate a herd of microbes like bacteria and protozoa who will help break down the stuff in the food teas

for veg food teas you can simply mix some stuff in a bucket with water and stir often or bubble for instance kelp, molasses, fish meal, krill, stinging nettles, chamomile, comfrey, dandelion, composted goat manure, rabbit pellets, humates, fulvic acid etc..
add more myco with each watering in veg, and a bit of EM if you have it

feed a compost tea, then a food tea, then water and repeat

for flowering teas use molasses, high P bat guano, hardwood ashes (small amount), yarrow, valerian, stinging nettles, dandelion, oak bark, horsetail and alternate with watering

you can just use plain water the last few weeks

I recommend starting with a fairly neutral medium like I have described as you can watch how the plant does with each feeding, premixing in heavy nutrient sources will make it tricky to understand and will make it hard to flush properly in the last half of flowering

also if you want you can spray the plants in veg with a simple tea made from stinging nettles, comfrey, chamomile and horsetail, and lithothamnium algae, add 1 part of any or all of these to 10 parts water in a glass jar and let it ferment a week or 2 until it is good and stinky, then strain and dilute 1:20 with good water and spray the plants once or twice a week..these are prophylactic herbs meaning herbs that will make the plant strong and healthy and resistant to disease..you can also give them some of this to the roots if you want

the key is to observe, become one with the plants, touch the plants

[Cannibal]

C-Ray you are an incredible library of information.......I was thinking all that might be a bit to much for a begginer to comprehend......was attempting to keep it very simple.

When I started, a simple soil mix, learning how to make and use teas, and measuring the right amounts of ammendments to ensure it's all used up by harvest, container size, temps, cropping, watering.....all this was quite enough to try and wrap my head around the first time I grew.

I think perhaps you might be offering too much info for a first timer, coco is pretty touchy for a begginner, which I'm assuming you are hypnotoad?.......I make this judgement based on the fact that you ask how do you put it all together to grow some weed......

I'm not wanting to butt heads with you C-ray......just trying to keep it simple for a begginer to get started.... we can help hypnotoad out without exploding his brain......

[c-ray]

I agree simple is good

my suggestions can help to grow amazing weed, which is what we should all aim for every time, not that I'm saying the recipe you describe won't grow amazing weed but I think we can push the envelope a little bit, it is not that hard, just takes a little observation and connecting with the plants, watching how what we do does for them

I personally avoid blood meal and bone meal, fish meal, etc as I have found it will push the flavour towards rankness when I just want dankness

humates and wood ash in larger quantities will add a charcoal taste...much better for the plant to get the humates from worm castings and compost


coco is not that hard to work with..the key with coco is to feed/water more often than with peat, up to twice as much
it doesn't grab the nutrient/water as much as peat, it acts more like a true hydro medium in these respects and it dries out faster, which can be a good thing
oxygen at the roots is good
the other key with coco with organics is to make sure there is calcium available

I have pretty much given up on peat, it is bulky and can only be used effectively for one grow and then needs to be removed from the garden, it breaks down/loses is structure and fluffiness and acidifies

coco can even be recycled for a few grows provided there are no pest problems, especially when using microbial additions like EM, mycorrhyizae, compost, compost tea, etc.

peat is a good at shielding against radiation, for instance a house made with some peat in the walls, in the concrete for instance might be good in urban areas with all the cell phone towers and whatnot...but it is not necessarily a good thing for plants as they like to access cosmic radiations

if one is a beginner it is a good idea to try a few things anyways, try a few methods and see what works.. it's good to learn by experience as that experience will become instinct and intuition

[Cannibal]

Good stuff......I avoid blood meal and fish emulshions as well.....I was avoiding bone but decided to start using it again, I haven't used that mix since my first grow, but those ingredients are usually available everywhere.

I agree we all should aim for amazing weed everytime but not everyone is willing to put the effort to learn such detailed organic science as you are......some people just want to try out organic methods for curiosity......god knows why...organic ganja is so tasty.

Then again, I've smoked my share of incredible cannabis grown chemically......I think that anyone who becomes one with their plants and really knows their plants needs and actually cares is on the right track.
Nothing worse than commercial chem shwag that everyone (dumbasses) raves about in some circle.

[c-ray]

I agree anyone can grow amazing weed with organics and chemi's, but it is rare either way relatively speaking
the more folks we turn on the better

[hypnotoad]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the great info there. I haven't had a chance yet, but I do have a grow going with what I hope is a decent plan. Up to date, I've done a lot of reading, but have little hands on experience. But, being technically minded, I feel I have the making of a good farmer. This stuff is just so much fun!

Anyway, here is what I'm currently running:

I have a 6'W x 3.5'D x9.25'H closet that is completely sealed except for the door (no vents). I am running 1 CMH 400W that hangs vertically with a plastic coated wire mesh cage around it. The lamp was placed equidistant to all the plants, and hung higher in anticipation of the plants getting taller.

The plants have now been moved to 3 gallon smart pots with catch trays beneath. For nutes, I am currently using the BMO line found on ebay. At this stage they have only been fed one weak dose of grow it green with their super plant tonic. Before that, it was SPT and water.

My water source is effectively spring water. I have a garden gro chlorine filter I adapted to connect to my shower head. In the future I will be experimenting with carbonated water, deionized water, and who knows what else.

Currently the room is running hot according to my Walmart temp/humidity sensor. To compensate, I made a ghetto a/c with some copper tubing, a water pump, plastic tubing, an ice chest, some frozen 2 liter bottles, and 2 target fans. The device isn't pulling its weight at all, but the design could be improved to make it run better (been too busy). The real solution (when I can afford it) is to get a portable a/c.

I am also making my own CO2 with a 5 gallon bucket, yeast, and sugar. I then ran tubes along the plants. Again, a real CO2 system is on my list of things to get.

1 thing I have learned, though, is how awesome CO2 is for little plants. In my seed/cloning chamber, I have a 1 gallon jug half filled with water, yeast, and sugar. It is way more than what a little 7" dome needs, but the plants LOOOOOVE it. In it, I currently have 4 aliendawg F2 seeds that popped out of 5. I also have 3 buuba kush in clone. 1 is definately dead, and the other 2 look pretty bad as well, but they might be coming around. I now believe you should definately trim all fan leaves for clones.

I'll post more details as i think of them. Please feel free to ask questions or comment on my setup...your advice is always welcome.

Oh yeah, the strains are all over the place. I don't want to go into it now, but I bought a lot of mixed bags, so I don't always know what I got, but I figure it will force me to learn to grow properly vs always know that it's a "heavy feeding indica that is always done in 60 days" or some such nonsense. I will actually have to look at my plants and learn what they are telling me. So anyway, here's my line up:

2 Mosca C99 or some new strain of his that he's entering this year. I have two in pots that could be one or the other.

Subcool 3rd Dimension. 1 in a pot.

2 untested hybrids from mister big.

2 skunk x haze. Both of these plants don't look as good as the others. We'll see.

4 aliendawg f2 that just popped. Freebie seeds from THC Farm.

Thanks again,

HT

[Cannibal]

Naturally the more you grow the more you will learn, if you try out c ray's suggested mix you will be amazed with the results, even while using your bottled nutes you aquired using a good mix in the container makes a huge difference......c ray's suggested mix (80%coco/10%ewc/10%perlite)

I love all your homemade contraptions for c02 and air conditioner :) your the crafty type you'll make a great grower .....just keep it simple......I find too many growers get all caught up with all these expensive add ons and useless nutes and supplements, pricey cloning machines and all this useless expensive crap...........hey if that's what you want well then don't let me stop you but just keep in mind people have been growing crops well before modern cyvilization and expensive hydro stores.

[hypnotoad]

The main reason I haven't tried any of these new methods is that I was already committed before this post. But I never stop trying to learn, even as I go along. This forum has made me decide that I'd like to make my own ferts/inoculants and save in the long run.

BTW, in defense of Blue Mountain Organics, they are a really decent brand of organic fertilizer. I encourage everyone to check them out. The two things I like about them is that they are ethical, and they tell you everything that they put in the bottle. Oh yeah, they are also dirt cheap. You can buy their whole nutrient line for just under 40 dollars with shipping.

Thanks again,
HT

[Cannibal]

O yea by no means was I meaning to put down BMO I have heard nothing but good things they are a mom and pop co. and doing it well!

and what I meant was, for your next grow, if you feel so inclined, get some pro mix, or make that coco mix c-ray suggested, or make your own peat mix or whatever you want to do, and use a simple homemade mix along with your BMO system, no use in not using what you have as you've made a good choice in ferts there.......or you can surely continue with rockwool if it's working for you..........IMO I think that a bmo feeding sytem would work better in soil or coco.......but....you seem to be doing just fine and are very innovative :)

[hypnotoad]

Thanks Cannibal!

I just realized I did not mention that I am growing in soil. The BMO guys recommended something like 30% peat and compost with a little perlite and worm castings with a touch of lime for PH. I simplified that to 1 bag of Fox Farm Happy Frog (Ocean forest seems too hot. Especially combined with their SPT and other BMO products), and 1 small bag of perlite.

I chose to avoid coco coir at that time because it needs to usually be treated unless you buy the expensive pre treated stuff. Also, from what I've read, the nutrients for coco coir are slightly different that other mediums, such as having a naturally higher level of Phosphorus or something. I'll have to go back a reread....there's just soooo much info. However, I really am looking to a soiless medium like coco with perlite, or maybe just perlite in the future.

My current soil may be slated to be converted to compost...or maybe Bokashi! It seems that if you go organic, then bacterial inoculants and fungi are the way to go. Though I live in an apartment, I plan on gathering some of this organic material and eventually making all my nutrients from scratch.

Oh yeah, and lastly, I just put 5 seeds by Subcool (3rd Dimension) in Carbonated water with a drop of B1 today.

HT

[Cannibal]

You've really got it together! good job!

yes it's true coco is not the same to work with......when it comes to lime, you can use more than just a touch as they suggested, use about 1 cup per cubic foot of medium.....basically 1 tbsp per gallon...I use 4 cups for one bale of promix....which is 3.8 cu ft so close enough....it will keep your ph balanced for a peat medium and most importantly supplies calcium and magnesium.....and if your already putting compost in there...perfect......mostly all the beneficial fungys and micorize and all the micro goody's you are after are all in there..compost is the shit (haha)..get on board with making compost tea.......your plants will love that.......some sugar source, ( I like mollasses.) and some compost.....and air bubble it in a bucket for about 24 hrs until it has a foamy head like a beer.....that means it's ready....the foam means it's alive.....as you know just like yeast would do when you add sugar....just like it makes yeast come alive....it activates the microbes in the soil and eats the nutrients making them available to the plant......this is what organic growing is all about........feed the soil not the plant....check out the tea threads on this site if you havent already.

A word about wanting to make all your own ferts.....a few years ago on ic mag.......myself and a few other organic nutters followed along with this dudes homemade fert scene he concocted....he had grown up with his dad as an avid gardener and was totally against buying ammendments......he couldn't afford any either so this little trip was really fun........I learned loads about making all your own for no money............to get to the point........this guy had never grown ganja...........but he did his first grow with homemade ferts.......the result was pretty sad.........the plants were alive...but they didn't really produce anything........he did his second grow with store bought ammendments with a simple bone blood kelp lime mix....and yeilded like 150% more with the same genetics.....moral of the story is.......I think its fine to grow a veggie garden outside with poo and homemade stuff......but if you really want to grow some worthwhile ganja under lights indoors and utilize your plant genetics to their full potential.......it's worth the few dollars for a bag of guano or the like...........I'd love to hear about it if you do it......not trying turn you off the idea.......just thought I'd tell you that little story. :)

[c-ray]

the gh (general hydroponics) coco bricks are pretty reasonable, one should be careful, there is a lot of crap coco out there
if one wants some uber cheap hydro medium there are some options like fresh sawdust from douglas fir and certain species of pine ie PTS (Pine Tree Substrate)

from what I've read recently a super secret old school compost for annual plants can be made from just stinging nettles in a traditional compost heap, or nettles with some animal manure..
nettles also makes a superior liquid fert.
a traditional compost pile needs to be at least a cubic yard fyi
there are some cheap yet reliable nettle seeds here -> http://www.herbs.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?product=X4270&show=&prodclass=Herb_and_Vegetable_Seeds&cart_id=3435639.9023
nettles are also a good herb to grow if one is preparing an outdoor patch, ie plant nettles and a couple years later the soil will be muchly improved
one can transplant little root bits of nettles to make new nettle patches so one can ask the local hippies where the local nettle patches are and then transplant some roots to make a new nettle patch

[crazy cooter]

Nice little thread right here. Thx.

[c-ray]

get the ideal soil book from http://soilminerals.com

[vapor]

try this one has been treating me well.... different plants may need to be adjusted....
Vapor's Mix™ Ratios
alfalfa 100 ml
blood meal 15 ml
kelp 10 ml
dolomite lime 45 ml
bat guano 10 ml
rock phosphorus 10 ml
glacial rock dust 15 ml
leonardite 2.5 ml
borate 40 0.0425 ml
soybean meal 60 ml
neem seed cake 15 ml
pyro clay 5 ml
copper sulfate 0.1 ml
zinc sulfate 0.15 ml
manganese sulfate 0.175 ml

Multiplication Factor 5 gallons

total volume 287.7925 ml
ps almost forgot 200ml of worm casting per gallon......
let cook for two weeks EM and or bio zome applied to pile......

[Green Supreme]

Priceless info dude. Hopin peeps can appreciate. Peace GS

[c-ray]

Vapor's Mix™

[otto]

Wow, nice......

[vapor]

i dare you otto....

[otto]

hehehe :)

......that's quite the menu :D


but....Dude.....I'll call your leonardite 2.5 ml
borate 40 0.0425 ml
soybean meal 60 ml
neem seed cake 15 ml
pyro clay 5 ml
copper sulfate 0.1 ml
zinc sulfate 0.15 ml
manganese sulfate 0.175 ml

And raise you a silver dollar in your tea maker :D

[vapor]

i had to make it non vegan, i put in some blood meal mmmm.
or risk getting taken out by shylo massive kushman mafia....

[vapor]

ewkudBjX1KU

[otto]

mwahahaha...:D

So....with that mix.....any signs of lockout/overfeeding or are they gobbling it all up like maniacs?.......Dr. Vapor

I'm trying out a half bone, half rock phos. mix to see how that works........I like the write up you posted about dude and his experiments.....some great info there.....

But no really about the silver dollar, I wasn't kidding......I've been reading up on metals and there effects on life.......curious to know if Silver would kill all the good and bad microbes?....or if it focuses on the bad ones......wild west they used to put silver dollars in milk bottles to keep them from going bad....no fridges.......

[vapor]

with the mix i posted it is a base, so you can do almost any plant in it from what i have seen barring extreme earlies{try one plant}. no signs of over feeding no black ash, very clean. some plant i do can handle more phos, i think i few strong teas to those plants at the right time would be enough of an increase. watch carefully things will get funky when you mix things at different ratios. i noticed some weird things when i cut my original receipe in half.i dont know exactly what is going on but at differing ratios different elements get affected so things look different, watch and see.
I want quality and from there bump up and see if yield can be improved but there is a balance, you will learn peace

[c-ray]

http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=%22vapor's+m#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&client=ubuntu&hs=wus&channel=cs&source=hp&q=%22vapor's+mix%22&pbx=1&oq=%22vapor's+mix%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2564l4089l0l4768l5l4l0l0l0l0l184l575l1.3l4l 0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=fba33184f45a4238&biw=1032&bih=752

[vapor]

wtf 15 cent....