What is the Best Extraction Method?

[Green Supreme]

Love Sam's comments in this thread, especially the part about standardized methods for testing amongst our industry. Peace GS

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4440040#post4440040

[vapor]

nasty bho

[c-ray]

to get an idea of prices

here's a link for 94% ethanol in Quebec: http://www.saq.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-2&pageSize=10&beginIndex=0&searchType=300&resultCatEntryType=2&tri=RechercheUCIProdDescAttributeInfo&sensTri=AscOperator&viewTaskName=SAQCatalogSearchResultView&codeReseau=&categoryId=12307&natureId=&couleurId=&cepageId=&origineId=&appelationId=&millesime=&classificationId=&sucreId=&pourcentageCode=&formatCode=&prodparticulierId=&prixMinimum=&prixMaximum=&nomProdOuFour=


everclear in Alberta:
http://www.highlanderwine.com/product/view/4110


and organic grain and grape alcohol in Ashland, Oregon:
http://organicalcohol.com/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=HowToOrder&category=Products

[c-ray]

this is only 40% but it is worth a mention for the sake of curiousity, gluten-free vodka made from soy:
http://www.3vodka.com

[c-ray]

from http://alchymie.ca/absalcohol.htm

How to Make Absolute Alcohol
In the section on making Angel Water, I mentioned that potassium carbonate will pull moisture from the air into itself. It will also do this in an alcohol environment, as potassium carbonate (Salt) and alcohol (Mercury) are polar opposite to each other and cannot mix. We will use this to our advantage, as the potassium carbonate will hold back the water as the alcohol is being distilled off.

To do this, calcine 200g of potassium carbonate per liter of 95% alcohol, let cool down to a warm temperature, then pour your alcohol over it, close very tightly, and shake vigorously to ensure good mixing. Do this several times a day. Allow the mixture to stand at room temperature for at least a day, then distill at 85C. If you have a vacuum pump, this will help as it restricts exposure to air. Once the alcohol is chemically dried in this manner, it will act the same way potassium carbonate does, that is, it will pull moisture from the air into itself, even in a closed bottle, until it reaches roughly 96% again. It is a good idea, then, to use it as soon as possible.

Do not distill to the point where the potassium carbonate is dry, only go until the alcohol is just touching its surface in the boiling flask. Once this first distillation is done, it should be over 98%. A second distillation using 100g potassium carbonate as above will push it above 99.8%, and a third using 25g should yield perfectly dry, absolute alcohol.

There is a trick to recovering un-distilled alcohol from your distillations. Say you used 200g of potassium carbonate. Once the distillation is done, you can pour in nearly the same quantity of distilled water, say 190ml, shake it up, then let it stand for a few hours. You will find that the mixture has split itself into two distinct layers. The top part is the remaining alcohol, possibly coloured pink, and can be siphoned off using a syringe, to be redistilled later. The bottom part is potassium carbonate dissolved in water, and can be dried and calcined and reused later.

[Green Supreme]

Grape alcohol is supposed to be the cats ass for us. Careful with Everclear, some places only sell the 70%. Peace GS

[nuggdigger]

yes..its actually 75.5 percent..
the high proof stuff is 190 proof..or 95%
from wiki;
Everclear is relatively low in congeners and is available in concentrations of 151- and 190-proof, which are 75.5 and 95 percent alcohol, respectively.[2] In contrast, other hard liquors such as rum and vodka are typically 80 to 120 proof, which contain 40 to 60 percent alcohol.

Concentrations of 95.6 percent ethanol and 4.4 percent water form an azeotrope such that simple distillation cannot remove any of the remaining water. Consequently, 190-proof spirits are the maximum available from the distilled beverage industry. In 1979, the Guinness Book of World Records listed 190-proof Everclear as “the most alcoholic drink.”



In Canada, Everclear is sold in the province of Alberta, but not in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and most other provinces.[citation needed] In British Columbia, it is available for purchase with a permit for medical use, research use, or industrial use only.



the 151 proof is saleable in more states etc...:rant:

[nuggdigger]

http://www.truthtree.com/thc_extract.shtml

so what is the desired final form...oil?...only??:rolleyes:

:pimp: peace :pimp:

[Green Supreme]

I pick hash. Peace GS

[Alchemist]

anyone do an ethanol extract that doesnt taste like caca?

[Green Supreme]

Some posts I found from Sam on Icmag. I feel the third post is very important. Peace GS

I don't have the test results anymore but I got 96% THC from cleaned up ethanol oil made from dry sift hash that was over 50% THC. At the time 20 years ago, I was very surprised but had it confirmed by another lab. It was very reddish, almost brittle.

I have never seen a lab get more then 30% THC from bud, not from a lab I believed in.
I have got over 70% THC in the very highest quality dry sift, you could not smoke it on a screen regardless how fine, it just ran through. Worked fine in an oil pipe...
All of my dry sift is over 50%, some 60%. And I know the THC %'s are right as I had two other labs confirm my own GC work.

Sorry I don't have tests, I just did not keep them, only the data...

-SamS

I have never used UPLC. I have seen it. I have an HPLC and a prep HPLC I got years ago. The prep HPLC allows isolation of grams of the target, great for standards etc. We did not use the HPLC much as our GC can run 96 samples over night, and I have zero interest in the acid forms of the Cannabinoids. It also has two injection ports, with two columns, one for THC and the rest of the Cannabinoids, and a different one for CBD/CBD separation. Works great, and reliable!

-SamS

There are several in the published literature for each of the big methods, the real problem is picking one and getting everyone to agree and use it, and to agree on a common sampling method for herbal Cannabis, whole plant? manicured ready to smoke? The whole plant can be 30-50% lower then manicured buds. You see the problems...
The industry needs at the least a method that all agree is valid, then they could use it to compare test results with other labs with the exact same samples, it will happen sooner or later...
Even if they have their own method for testing they need to confirm they can get the same results with the same samples and a common method as all the other labs.
SamS

What Robert says is pretty much true, but I have produced resin that is over 99% pure resin heads, that was a little over 70% THC, and that it produced an alcohol extract that when cleaned up a bit yielded a little over 96% THC. Robert was speaking about what the average person was able to do, not me. You may have seen the photos of my dry sift resin? It is easy over 95% pure heads.

-SamS

[Alchemist]

what kind of yields do folks get with bubble hash made from buds?

with co2, using buds I get around 10% w/w from dried material. The product is butterscotch (thats what i call it lol)

how could buds be 30% thc when there is only 10% available resin which is a mixture of much more than just thc or cannabinoids?

I agree with standard testing methods or at least if you are going to claim a % give reference to method used with details on sample prep, plant material used and moisture content etc....

I like how Sam, one of the oldest cats in the game prefers gc to hplc. I have always thought that gc/ ms would give a more complete profile rather than the hplc testing of cannabinoid acids.

PEACE

[Green Supreme]

He like HPLC for isolating standards, so it does still have a use. Peace GS

[Alchemist]

Shit

[Green Supreme]

Gonna stick with my bags and screens. Just curious, how much material to make that much product? Thanks for sharing. Peace GS

ps. whats up with all the little bubbles and the dark spots?

[vapor]

looks real nice mind you the black spots. is that co2?

[Alchemist]

hi guys,

co2, 10% w/w from dry buds. 20g gives about 2g

the material comes out lighter in color and sort of whipped like the budder then when the nozzle gets warmer and some of the product gets warmer it goes to a darker golden translucent material.

fresher is better with the volatiles and this stuff was sitting around for 10 months and could have had better flavor.

PEACE

[Green Supreme]

If it retains the terps, sounds fresh material would be the way to go. Peace GS

[Mr T]

Hello Alchemist,
Could you please post some pictures of the CO2 unit and the process?

I once tried some amber colored syrupy oil which supposed to be CO2 oil, but it probably was a high quality QWISO.
Are there any identifying characteristics of CO2 oil?

Cheers

[Alchemist]

Hi Mr.T, I cant show you the exact equipment for obvious reasons but here is a link to a reputable supplier and you can find several more with a quick search.

http://www.appliedseparations.com/Supercritical/SCF_Education/Prime.asp

In my experience I havent seen any amber colors in the extracts. I have run fresh buds and old buds and they usually come out tan to yellowish in color. much work to be done...

For me its kind of a novelty thing. I wouldnt do it if i didnt have extra buds around. I would rather have 20g of buds than the 2 g of extract that is produced. Im going to run some fine trim and see what the yields/ product is like, If I can get 5% from bud trim that would be pretty cool.

[Green Supreme]

If the extraction method is worth its salt 5% from trim should be do able. I get around that making bubble. Good luck and thanks for sharing. Peace GS

[Green Supreme]

Popping up more frequently. Peace GS

http://www.fox40.com/videobeta/2d4183a1-03e4-4099-830c-a8a002d64d07/News/Video-Man-Sets-Himself-on-Fire-at-Home

[vapor]

oye

[Green Supreme]

Some interesting posts from Sam the Skunkman on making hash with seeded or sinsi bud. Peace GS

Yes, seeded Cannabis resin is not as good as sinsi resin.
Seeded plants will be lower in THC and lower in terpenoids.
I have made both for years and sinsi resin is better for getting high. Here is an article:
This paper shows that sinsi makes better resin, and more of it, and why.

http://www.internationalhempassociat.../jiha5107.html


this is also interesting.
http://www.internationalhempassociat.../jiha4208.html

-SamS

[Green Supreme]

One more. Peace GS

I am sure that herb or resin that is unseeded is superior to seeded, at least for me and most I know. Both Cannabinoids and terpenes are reduced in seeded crops, this is pretty clear.
I have gotten 500 grams of seeds from a single plant, if you think that did not reduce the yield of flowers, resin, THC, and terpenes, for the plant to produce 500 grams of seeds, try rethinking why, all the best.
I do know a few people that are convinced that seeded was different in some way, like different Cannabinoids, but I have never found this, even though I looked.
-SamS

[Green Supreme]

Boom. Peace GS

http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/682fb766-f728-48b3-9488-634340cea948/News/KTLA-Moorpark-House-Explosion-Leads-to-Hash-Oil-Lab-Lynette-Romero-reports

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/video/#!/news/local/Honey-Oil-the-Cause-of-Home-Explosion/133294633

[Green Supreme]

Story I found on another site. Peace GS

Lol. I blew myself and a house up making oil before.

I had bought 100 cans of butane and had about 5 lbs of trim. I was drunk and decided to start up at about 2 am one night. I opened the small basement windows (only 2 of them) and filled this huge ass pipe with trim, placed a big pyrex dish beneath it and started pumping the butane thru it. I had run 9 cans thru the pipe when I heard a WHOOSH. The hot water heater had kicked on. I watched every square inch of space turn into fire, then a huge fireball hit me and lifted me across the room. When I got up the pipe had this huge ass flame shooting out the top, hitting the ceiling and spreading out about 5 ft to either side. I ran upstairs and grabbed my dog and stood outside.

I sat there for a minute figuring I would just sit there in the snow and watch the house burn down, then I remembered that there were still 91 cans of butane in the basement. So I ran back in and grabbed those and noticed that the only thing still burning were the pipe and the pyrex dish. I threw the butane outside and grabbed a 5 gal bucket, filled it with water and dumped it on the pyrex dish. That made the dish explode and sent the butane/honey oil/fire mixture all over the floor. So now the floor was on fire too. I realized that the butane just had to burn itself out, so I just stood there looking stupid. When all the flames were out I surveyed the damage. The back wall of the house had been pushed out about 2 feet, and some things that were laying on the basement floor were now in the attic. The room that I was making the oil in was black and covered in soot. The ceilings on the main level were cracked all the way along the walls they sat upon from the air expanding so fast. The stucco finish on the outside of the house was cracked all over the place. My hair and eyebrows were singed and melted to my head.

So the next morning I got a haircut, skim coated all the burnt walls and ceiling with joint compound, sanded them down, and got some paint color matched to the rest of the basement, and painted everything. I also had to replace the blackened outlet/lightswitch covers, and scrub the burnt honey oil off the concrete with a wire brush for hours. This all took 3 days.

Then I called my landlord and told her that the snow on the roof had made the back wall of the house buckle. She came out the next morn with her boyfriend who was a contractor. Her boyfriend surveyed the damage and agreed that it was the snow that caused it (dummy). The next day an insurance agent came over, walked in the house, looked around for 2 seconds and said "this was caused by an explosion". So they had the gas company guy out there right away with his "sniffer" thing and could not detect any gas. This whole time the insurance guy is looking at me funny like he knew I was cookin meth. They sent a team of guys in suits out to the house, and they were rubbing things down with Qtips and shit looking for trace chemicals from the meth I was cookin.

This shit with the ins agents went on for 2 weeks. About 5 guys in suits would come over everyday and stare at the damage, scratch their heads, and mumble shit to each other. I was a nervous wreck.

They never figured out what caused the explosion, and they gave the landlord $65,000 to repair shit. I moved out ASAP after that, and I have never attempted to make, or even smoked any oil since.

What a stupid asshole I am, huh?

[Springs]

Woah! From only 9 cans...

crazy story

[vapor]

wow////

[Lrus007]

1buSgDNfGFQ&feature

[Green Supreme]

Methods for individualizing trichomes. Peace GS

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&cp=38&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=%22methods+for+individualizing+trichomes&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=%22methods+for+individualizing+trichomes&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=9b2333bea0cc8252&biw=1280&bih=633

[vapor]

just ordered one of these boo doggy i am stoked

http://www.home-distilling.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=603&idcategory=62

[Alchemist]

That looks really nice vapor, are you going to extract trim with ethanol?

Should be able to limit the amount of chllorophyl by dialing in the amount of reflux time

[vapor]

yea i can hardly wait to play!!
vaccum pump as well should be a treat!

[Green Supreme]

More BHO stuff. Peace GS

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=233806

[Green Supreme]

A rapid method for isolating glandular trichomes. Peace GS

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1080397/pdf/plntphys00704-0010.pdf

[Springs]

Nice, did it work okay?

New they are around $6k, used $500 - $1500.

[Green Supreme]

I believe once we mount some glass as a catcher and a screen, it will work adequately. Peace GS

[vapor]

how much weight can it hold?

[Green Supreme]

Not sure, but in the purpose it had before me it held about 50 lb. Peace GS

ps. moved the shaker table stuff to the GS Concentrates thread

[Green Supreme]

CO2 extraction pdf. Peace GS

http://cannlabs.com/papers/CO2%20Extraction.pdf