The complexities of H2O

[BlueCelisWhite1]

What a struggle. One would think that the H20 end of things of all things involved in growing would be the most simplistic but for some reason the only thing for me that comes easy with this part of the gig is having water on my brainski.

Share in my pain if you would for a sec.

I have well water that out of the tap is ph of 7.4 and 380 ppm. My R/O system brings ph down to 5.3 and 30 ppms. This is pretty ideal for me when running tubblers. At the moment I am not running hydro Im running FF soil.

Whats pissing me off is that in my mind I should have to use as much PH up as I have been to bring my ro'd water up to 6.5 ish. It takes about 4 ml of PH up to bring a gallon of RO'd water from 4.4 ish to 6.5 ish.

I have a oakton phtestr 2 and when I calibrate it it hits the 4.0 calibration solution right on cue but for some reason this tool although Im sure it is right doesnt give me mcuh faith. there is always some doubt there for some reaon even if in my own mind.

How much PH up is too much per gallon of water isnt 4 ml over kill?

grrrr

[c-ray]

pH up is usually potassium hydroxide, fortunately cannabis plants are big potassium eaters, what's the end PPM reading?

what medium are you using, if it's peat based you only need to go up to 6.2

[BlueCelisWhite1]

Im using FF in the red bag. ya good question I should check the ending ppm after adding the ph up.

C-ray do you use RO? If so whats your water stats before and after RO?

Thx man

[c-ray]

fortunately I've never had to use any filters

[BlueCelisWhite1]

Your Lucky! : )

Let me ask you this. Say when watering I catch some run off in a cup to test ph and ppm and the run off is reading say 5.6 ish, should I up my ph value of the water I am watering with to try and offset the ph to a more ideal soil ph or should I keep phing my water to 6.2-7.0 range?

I think i goofed with a plant and ran a gallon of straight un ph up'd water into conatiner which would be at the 4.4 ph and 30 ppm area and the run off measured 5.6. So how can I re ph the soil so run off next time will be in the right range? Make sense?

thx for the help C-ray

[c-ray]

run off should be at your target pH, what kind of medium are you using?

[mace]

There was a guy over at ICMAG, he had the same probs with his RO, it came out with a pH of 5ish... it took me 10 days to accept the fact that his RO machine would produce such low pH water.
Someone else said that the carbon filter in the RO machine does it to the water ;)

[Lucas]

it does sound like you are using a large amount of pH UP

since you want such a high pH (I would target 6.3 to irrigate, and would be happy with a 5.6 runoff), I suggest you use your tap and RO water mixed half and half. that should eliminate your need for pH UP

Lucas

[Jake Blues]

i wasn`t aware that home ro units changed the ph.is that common?
i`ve always gotten it form the machine at the store,the ppm`s after a service is less than 10 and it gets to the end of the service cycle it`s about 35ish,but the ph is always the same as my tap water 7.8.

[BlueCelisWhite1]

Hey mace good reading ya and thx for the response.

Hi Lucas always a pleasure to have you help direct me towards some solutions.

Yes I have thought about using half and half. I have just 2 plants in soil right now and will be going right back to Tubblers.

I started out in soil like many or most have then graduated to hydro the only reason Im in soil now is I tried my hand at pollinating a couple BBW's and thoght for the first time I might have better success harvesting seed in dirt rather than hydro.

But I will be strictly going back to tubs becuase it is much easier, faster and for me all around better.

So you think i should shoot for a 6.3 target in these soil plants right now to try and eliminate the use of so much ph up to get up more towards 7 area? if so I will do that.

I really dont know much about water and how it reacts and what makes it react the way it does in differant applications. the compounds seem straight forward and simply guess the ph is what seems complex at times.

I didnt know that my RO unit would be changing the ph of my water either. I also have only been able to get my water down to 30 ppms at the moment. I think new I was able to get it down to 17 or so. Might need filter change but its not been used much but still.

When I started this thread one of the plants was looking a tad sad i think from the Straight RO water with the low ph I accidently mixed up and poured through. I watered yesterday with my straight well water of 7.4 and 400 ppm and it might already look better.

time will tell
thx all

[Jake Blues]

BlueCelisWhite1 i asked just because i don`t know.i`m planning on installing one this winter.i`ve just never seen anyone saying ro chaged ph. that was i asked.

[mace]

icmag is still down, can't find the thread atm, but i think i remember the same person suggesting to remove the activated carbon filter or similar...

[Glass Man]

Have you ever had your water analyzed to see what is raising your ppms so much? It might not be "bad" stuff. Have you actually had plant troubles using it with soil? Maybe you are thinking too much like a "hydro" grower. What would a greenhouse or a farmer in your area do? They can't RO & pH adjust all of their water. Maybe you should think about giving your local agricultural extension service office a call (just tell them you have a new hobby greenhouse). I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to help you consider things from a different angle. Let us know what you find out and what ends up working (or not) for you, that's how we all learn from each other.

Peace,
GM

[BlueCelisWhite1]

Hey Glassman,

Yes I live in a area that is heavily farmed and there are 100's of large greenhouses around my area. Im sure you are right about thinking like a hydro grower becuase Im sure I do. I have never had the water tested other than when we were perking the property when we built.

Even being well water with a ppm of near 400 our water tastes very good and doesnt stain our toliets, tubs or other things that usually get stained with hard waters. So maybe even though it has a high ppm you might be right about it not being bad stuff.

Where I run a couple plants at there isnt any running water so I have to lug water from home which is a pain in the ass but is better than buying it and lugging on top of it. So thinking like a hydro grower wanting my starting ppm to be as low as possible I bought the RO system to lower the ppms for growing in tubblers which works pretty good since I began using Lucas.

I will deff. check into getting the water tested. I did check into it through the county and seems like the test was 70.00 bucks and at the time I said ahh screw it becuase I had the RO and was growing hydro.

Thx for the ideas and help.

Thx mace as well I will look into the carbon filter and maybe pull it out and check ph before and after.

[Glass Man]

I wouldn't pay $70 for a water test, that's way too much. I'd ask some questions first. Ask the Ag extension service, ask greenhouses, etc. If they won't help call a different one. Ask them what kind of fertilizers they use, etc. If you find a smart employee who's getting paid by the hour they would probably rather spend an hour talking to you than working!!;)

If you save $70 doing that, spend it on something good for yourself and/or your babe. A good dinner and a bottle of wine, or some good live music, who wants to pay $70 for a water test???

Peace,

[Old Toby]

About the only dissolved solid that is going to drop your pH to that level with only 30ppm is sulfur....or are you near Groom Lake, Dugway Proving Grounds or Los Alamos? :D

City water, drawn from artisian wells, come off the main at about 300 ppm, we use a whole house filter, to keep the shower clean, that drops the ppm to about 200, and then the RO gets the number down to 15-20 (depends on how much dishsoap stuck to the measuring glass) pH is always 7 to 7.1, with calcium and silica being the majority of the remaining dissolved solids.

Tobold Hornblower

[BlueCelisWhite1]

Ive smelled water with alot of sulfur in it and I have to say mine doesnt smell anything like that. Our well water tastes pretty good and is odorless.

I will say though that my daughters have a micro layer of a blackish film on their bottom teeth that isnt visable by naked eye only magnified at the dentists and he says that it is caused from iron.


Toby not exactly sure what you are saying. Are you saying my water shouldnt be that low of a ph out of the RO unless it has a high count of sulfur?

Thx for the help Id like to get a better understanding of whats what so all comments welcome.

[mace]

Hi Old Toby,

About the only dissolved solid that is going to drop your pH to that level with only 30ppm is sulfur....
these 30ppm that bcw was talking about were TDS ppm (EC x conductivity factor), not elemental ppm (mg/L) ;)

the guy on ICMAG has 0 ppm RO water, he checked with two pH meters, each calibrated on two solutions (4 & 7).
I don't know for sure if this was caused by the ac filter, but i'm positive that he had that low pH water.