Topping VS. LST (Low Stress Training)

[BlueCelisWhite1]

Im sure this has been discussed many times but lets discuss it one more if you will.

Ive never been a real big fan of topping plants. I seem to be able at times to put enough un-wanted stress into my plants as it is. I have in the past topped plants which seemed to trigger hermi's. While growing the same strain untopped that did not hermi. I know some plants actually produce better when topped and that is fine as long as that particular strain isnt susceptable to turn hemi from that type of stress. I guess.

So what exactly is the differance between topping and tieing your plants? Dont the two in the end achieve the same goal? Your either trying to keep your plants to a certain height or promote more shoots right?

So why dont people strictly stick to training instead of topping?

[meloyelo]

BCW from my limited experience I have noticed that some plants are easier to bend and therefore naturally lend themselves to LST while others are too stiff and squatt so do not. These later types I will top instead. As far as I am concerned growing a plant out naturally and not abusing it is for outdoor growers. But inside there is no way I am not going to fiddle about. First by concentrating a few choice colas into the sweet spot of the light and second by pistilwhipping them from the bottom up so those colas can realize their maximum potential.
I never felt I stressed a plant though by topping it. And certainly have not caused any to hermie by doing so.
Both methods work well for bushing out your plants. Great for generating cloning material. I do generally prefer LST though because I generally grow sat dom hybrids that are built for it and also because I like to get the bud from the natural center cola, which I feel is always bigger and more dense than the rest. But also LST works wonders where limited light penetration is an issue. Promoting more expossure of branches to light. I am currently hooked on the idea of an even canopy. Where every bud branch makes it way to the top of the plant and gets an equal share of the light available.
-melo

[Lothar of the Hill People]

I use a crushed meristem to bend the plants at about 4 weeks, and pretty much disregard the "low stress" aspect of training. The big advantage is that the plants remain at the diameter of the pot, and rarely go more than 2 1/2 feet tall. I'd have pics to show, but lost they were... :(

[meloyelo]

Those pics were "Impressive" Lothar. (my best darth vader voice)
What I really liked about them was the dense display of bud compressed within that 2 1/2 ft height. Nothing but big fat colas, looked like you were growing bulls horns in those pots.
-melo

[Agent-Smith]

In my experience, I enjoy the LST mainly because it let's me decide exactly what the footprint will be and how many mains I want without the need for cutting. I think topping is best kept for emergencies only like the plant growing into the light or something to that effect.

[Old Toby]

It's a matter of using what is best for the situation. As mentioned, indicas don't like to lay down, they can get very stiff quickly. Also, as a rule, you need to support LST plants, while topped plants support themselves. (if they could support themselves at all) Crushing seems to split the difference.

Tobold Hornblower

[Joe King Park]

yeah , i'm into high stress 90 degree bends
creating massive knuckles
too baked to go into now
but , instead of top them ; "Bottom Them Instead"
makes for a bigger main cola and also lowers chance of enviromental damage (Botrytis, slug , powdery mildew to name a few
i remember my first experiences with BCbig Bud Outdoors (49th)
lost quite a few to mould , fungal problems
this chemo bends every which way, and then some
Joe

[Brick Top]

For the first time I topped my plants, twice in fact. It’s to early to know anything more than it makes them bushy as heck but I’ll have to wait and see what is yet to come and if it is in my opinion the way to go.

[kazzy1]

I found some strains react negatively to topping them while others gave positive results and some others were indifferent to being topped. I've never tried crushing the meristem and I would like to know more about it.

[CannyBus]

I crush early on the plants, (NEVER during 12/12) to thicken the Stem, can get tricky, slowly increase pressure till you feel it "give" you can do this multiple times, and even the same spot if you allow time to heal. Topping I'll do to either attempt branching more, or to control height on a plant that seems taller then the rest in the room. Bending/training would be much less stressful, but topping earlier is better then later. I've not done it with any scientific goals to prove/disprove, usually just on a whim when i feel like it.

[Clancy]

Due to height limitations in my cab, and a penchant for excellively long veg times, I almost always seem to have to do soe bending to control height.

Some varieties can tolerate a little stem crush & 45 degree bend, others seem to want to snap. Those get crushed/pulverized (only lightly) with smooth-faced needlenose pliers. I crush the stem, maybe 20%. but from a variety of angles/sides up & down a 2" section. Sorta like softening up the stem, then I bend it, tying it to a pre-positioned stake to hold it in place till it stiffens to the new 'rake'

[Joe King Park]

first of all the plant must be mature before bending
1. hold base of branch you intend to bend with one hand
2. with other hand , bend branch gently until you feel it has crinked ( normally a droplet of moisture will appear on the top of the bend)
3. hold in that position for 10 seconds

had i not bent this plant , it would have been 10 feet high , no problem
so by bending it , i reduced the height by 4 feet and increased its width to 10+ feet

since i started bending my plants, i bend them all the time
just make sure the stalk has turned semi hard, and mature , or you could just snap that branch clean off

following image is same , but outdoors
Joe

[coffinman]

While I do both versions I prefer LST. I would drill many small holes along the top of the plastic pot and use thin guage ceiling wire to gently bend the plants stems into position and anchor them into the predrilled holes. By doing it this way you eliminate the use of stakes and can form your plant into any shape that is more beneficial to the area.

[dpn]

jkp that plant is a beaut, did you beef her up indoors before planting outside?
what do you amend your soil with?

[Indica Sativa]

Stupid question.. but after you tie the plant down and you got multiple branches coming out, do you keep the plant tied down and start flowering? Or do you just let it perk back up?

[meloyelo]

IndicaSativa it depends on the plant and how you go about the bending IMO. However, keep in mind, that when bending we are really altering the shape of the plant, so no we really don't want it to revert back to its original shape. Any staking or wiring or tieing is done for the reason of spreading the plant out. If and where it accomodates it can be released if it will stay where its been put. Sometimes though the side branches can use some additional support and other times its not needed. So really whatever works for the individual plant and grower.
-melo

[Nadir Zero]

If I remember correctly from reading Delta9's LST thread, he took the tallest part of the plant and tied it down so that the tip was lower than the axis point of the bend. He also placed a counter-tie that was 180 degrees opposite the first tie for stability.

Bending the plant below the axis...or maybe fulcrum would be a better word...is necessary to activate the hormones that make the other bud sites take off as well as opening up the plant to more light. Also if I remember correctly, Delta9 did not keep the tie in place, but only left it there for 48-72 hours. Then he went to the next tallest point on the plant and repeated the whole thing. At the end, he had a candelabra-looking plant that produced multiple "main" colas.

HTH

~NZ~

[Indica Sativa]

Thanks for the info gentlemen :rasta: Does LST make plants stretch more in early flowering? Or does this depend on different strains?

[przcvctm]

In the past I have usually topped and tied down the top shoots horizontally with string held in place with a rubberband around the top of the pot. The branches would then grow to the light vertically from there forming a 90 degree angle. Several different strains including THS BG, SWT#3 and C+ all finished at about 18-24" using that method. Then came the DJ's Blueberry. I selected the sativa looking pheno and applied the method above to control height. Long story short, I tied and retied and even tried to put a screen over it when my light was as high as it would go but the branches were to woody to bend w/out breaking. That plant was going to devour my light no matter what I did.

Now I have Flo going (15 days). If I were to LST it, might the branches still overcome my cab height (about 42") or does the greater number of branches growing vertically from the horizontal main stem reduce the overall stretch?

[CannyBus]

Has anyone tried Grafting? Just Curious

[nugs]

some strains top, some strains lst, some nothing. they all react different each one has its best way to grow.

[przcvctm]

Bump. I'd really appreciate an answer from someone experienced w/LST. Thanks.

[Agent-Smith]

It could overcome your cab height depending on how many extra shoots you have. The stretching is also dependent on how many growth tips you have. Of course the Indica/Sativa makeup will tell you the stretch as well. I had a couple nice NYCD LSTed girls who didn't stretch hardly at all with 5 tips while my Cherry Slyder and Ice princess girls with the same amount of tips had alot of stretch.

[przcvctm]

Thanks A-S.