Pythium or brown algae?

[LumpyStatus]

I have been using h2o2 with my grow setup and it seems I am having to add a lot to keep my problems in check. So I wanted to get everyones opinion on what this problem actually is and what I should do about it. I add h2o2 daily to keep issues at bay, but it seems things are still not solved. I posted some pics of the water with what looks like brown mass of some type of sludge, I also dumped it out and showed some pics of the stuff broken up and also a shot of the roots.

Now, I know root rot (pythium) looks like brown slimey substance on the roots, but does it form large masses in the reservoir and leave sludge all over? It really looks like a big algae bloom to me, but I really don't know what to think.

Since h2o2 can help with both algae and pythium, I don't know what one it is. Please help me out here...

[c-ray]

what is the source of your water?

[Stone]

Pythium grows in the dark, algae requires light. You decide.

[LumpyStatus]

The water source is plain old city tap water (260ppm on avg) and about 8ph. I do understand that algae requires SOME light to grow, but I have read that brown algae requires almost none. I don't know if it is possible that "some" light shines all the way through that hydroton to the bottom.

I will agree that pythium makes more sense, but does pythium leave large brown masses in the water like that? I thought algae did that. Or do they both?

[ogatec]

i vote pythium & the sludge looks like dead root material,or normal everyday rez gunk

[ogatec]

some brownish material @ the bottom of your rez is normal bacterial flock/detritus...you should see my rez with about 3 yrs of buildup!

[ogatec]

i dont know what the scientific name for the problem is but what is circled in the red is what i refer to "root rot"......



always caused by 1 of 3 factors.....
1. too hot
2. standing water
3. not enuff oxygen beeing supplied to root zone/oxygen supplied is beeing depleted too quickly (which is the effect of the other 2)

[LumpyStatus]

Thanks for the response fellas.

I don't think the gunk is normal every day stuff! This stuff appears 2-3 days after dumping res and cleaning system. I could understand gunk after a few weeks or even longer, but not a matter of days!

The reason the roots are "rotting" is because the system is an ebb n grow, bucket ebb n flow system. There is ALWAYS about 1/2" of water in the bottom of all the buckets, because the drain is out the side of the bucket instead of the bottom (I have raised to buckets higher and there is ALWAYS some water left in the buckets). So, what should I do? Let to roots rot out the bottom of the buckets, or chop the roots off every week or so as they grow out of the bottom?

I am trying a new product (new in the US) called pythoff. It is actually a chlorine compound that is supossed to kill EVERYTHING in the res. It seems to be working so far, but it has only been 2 days. The stuff lasts a lot longer in the res than the h2o2, so I don't have to add it every day. Most hydro stores do not yet stock the pythoff, I actually ordered it direct from the manufacturer, and it seems to be doing its job so far. No sludge, no smells etc.

ogatec you said:
>1. too hot

My res is a constant 68 degrees F. However, the small amount of water in the buckets easily gets in the mid 70's, about 75-77 same as my air temps. I guess this will always be a problem with a system that doesn't "fully" drain.

>2. standing water

You know I have standing water from what I said above :)


>3. not enuff oxygen beeing supplied to root zone/oxygen supplied is beeing depleted too quickly (which is the effect of the other 2)

This is what is happening. Because the only roots that are rotting are the ones that stay in standing water which gets depleted quickly. The roots up inside the rocks look great, because they get about 15 minutes of water every 2 hours and an hour and 45 min of air :)

So perhaps next time I will go back to my original flood and drain table, that drains almost ALL the water back to the res.

[ogatec]

Thanks for the response fellas.


The reason the roots are "rotting" is because the system is an ebb n grow, bucket ebb n flow system. There is ALWAYS about 1/2" of water in the bottom of all the buckets, because the drain is out the side of the bucket instead of the bottom (I have raised to buckets higher and there is ALWAYS some water left in the buckets). So, what should I do? Let to roots rot out the bottom of the buckets, or chop the roots off every week or so as they grow out of the bottom?

.


i dunno, my buddy runs a simular system(the multiflow) that holds even more water than yours does, yet he has no problems there. when i was having my issues i would go over thee & see his roots sitting in water w/o problems.. thats probibly why it took me so long find my issue. i would think well my table isnt holding near as much water as his buckets so that CANT be the problem..lol

mabey lots of standing water isnt as bad a little standing water, cause there is more oxygen in the deeper pool or somthing, i dunno


i would sujest going back to what works, thats what i did. i never really figured out what the problem was with my big table. i just got rid of it & went back to 4x4's & now im definitley on track.


1 last thing... i would lower the temps much as possible until you figure this thing out...1 degree can make the difference, & we really cant ask the plant hey is this the right temp? cant go wrong with 65f....

[ogatec]

roots resiprate just like we do, they need LOTS of oxygen. 1 plant can strip all the oxygen out of a rez in 1 feeding if its not being replenished. but the plants arnt the only ones respirating in the rez. you also have a whole zoo of micros competing for that same oxy. soo all it takes is a 1 time event , a few min for the roots to drown in oxygen depleted water. once there dead there dead, no perfect conditions will bring them back, you will have dead roots in perfect condidtions.

so, its not exactly pythium thats the problem here, you could technically use that stuff & still have problems because the main issue is oxygen depleted water not a root disease.

[ogatec]

finishing flowering today so i took a couple of pics of my rez & normal sediment



a little algea never hurt anybody

[LumpyStatus]

>roots resiprate just like we do, they need LOTS of oxygen
This is why ebb n flow, temperatures aren't really a problem. Because they ONLY get water when they flood, then the rest of the time they get oxygen more than any other system out there. This is why I think very few people get root rot in ebb n flow when growing in ONLY hydroton.

There is about 10 minutes or so that the plants are in water (even if the water had NO oxygen, I don't think the roots would die after just 10 minutes), then they have an hour or more of fresh air being pulled in.

The reason I am using the pythoff is to kill any potential problems in the res. If the problem is pythium, it will kill it, if it is algae it will kill it. If it is anything living besides roots, it will kill it. So far my water is still clean and clear and doesn't smell the way it normally would after 24 hours without h2o2. Not saying my problem is for sure solved, but definatley better.

Only time will tell. If I can go a full week without having issues in my res I will be happy. Though I would like to go an entire crop cycle without changing res, I will be satasfied with changing it out once a week if I absolutley HAVE to.

[ogatec]

ok, shoot me an email if it doesnt work & we can talk further... i really hope it works out for you, i am just so passionate about this topic because of the years of misery it put me thru...& i dont want others to take the same steps i did

good luck!