Lumpy goes Coco....

[The Cannarchist]

Its all yours Lumpy.

Tell us what you got.

[LumpyStatus]

Thanks Cannarchist. I owe you one, actually, lots of them ;)

I have a lot of questions, so I will try to break it down so they are easy to answer.... This is going to be a run to waste system for the fact that I cannot seem to keep a reservoir clean and healthy for more than a couple of days! Here we go!

1. Pots. I am going to have 45 clones in a 6x3 tray with 2- 600w hps lamps on them. I plan to veg for 7 days and flower for around 50-60 days. Am I good with 1 gallon pots? Should I get bigger/smaller ones or stick with those?

2. Coco brand. There are many forms of coco, I believe the best to be canna coco, I have used a few kinds and found canna to be the best and most "pure". Are we all in agreement that canna is the best or am I missing something?

3. Mix coco. I have read some people getting better results using a mixture of coco/perlite or coco/hydroton and some people doing better with PURE coco coir. What are your thoughts on this? Should I mix 50/50 hydroton/coco, 25/75, etc. Or is pure coco the way to go?

4. Nutrients. I have floranova bloom, and I have micro and bloom flora series nutes already. However, I would happily buy different nutes if recommended. I have heard good things about Pure Blend Pro + Cal mag in coco. I have also heard to stay away from canna coco A+B for it has deficiencies. What nutes should I use and should I get anything such as hygrozyme etc to go with them? Also, what feeding schedule do you recommend for veg/bloom.

5. Reverse Osmosis. I have an RO filter, should I use it? My tap is 260ppm and has a PH of 8.1 so it might be a good idea to use the RO.

6. Feeding Schedule. I am trying to make things easy as possible on myself, so what nutrient feeding schedule should I be using? Should I feed every water at low strength? Should I feed ever other watering/every 3rd watering? Should I be flushing them on a regular basis?

7. Ph. What should the PH of my water be when feeding the plants? What should my runoff PH be? Also, what should the ppm be of my feed water be? What should the ppm of the runoff be?

8. Tips. Please provide any additional tips and any info that you think is important for me to know. I have grown in coco before with decent results, but I am looking for better than decent results this time around :)

[The Cannarchist]

1) If you can find tall two gallon pots it would be better.They make a nice cheap 2 gallon growbag that fits the bill perfectly.More medium = bigger yield.

2)Go with the Canna.I buy 5KG compressed bricks right off the boat from India.You can use them but you have to flush them out with hot water (lots) before u plant

3)Pure is fine.But if you can fix up an auto water system that injects 3 times a day go with 50%Coco50%Hydrotron always get 10% run off.

4)Straight Floranova will be fine.

5)Yes

6)Feed water feed water etc

7) In @ 5.8 and up to 1000ppm in peak flower.Start at 700 ppm for fresh plants then increase.Increase if you see yellow lower fan leaves.Back off if you see the fresh leaf tips going brown(Burning)

8)Soil test the Coco every week.Take a handfull out of a pot(Dig into it) and add the same volume of distilled water.Let sit for half hour then seive off the coco and measure the results for Ph and PPM. Get some beneficial bacteria.

[LumpyStatus]

Excellent advice my friend. Thank you for the response.

>If you can find tall two gallon pots it would be better.They make a nice cheap 2 gallon growbag that fits the bill perfectly.More medium = bigger yield.

1. So 2 gallon growbags even though I am only going 7 day veg? Just want to clarify, I can get them easily.

>Pure is fine.But if you can fix up an auto water system that injects 3 times a day go with 50%Coco50%Hydrotron always get 10% run off.

2. If only I could get my res to stop stinking on me I would. But it looks like I will be hand watering. Should I water with 10% runoff even WITHOUT the hydroton?

3. I basically water when the coco is almost completely dry correct?


>4)Straight Floranova will be fine.

4. What do you think as far as ml per gallon or ml per liter?

>In @ 5.8 and up to 1000ppm in peak flower.Start at 700 ppm for fresh plants then increase.

5. Ok, just want to clarify, you are saying that the ppm of my WATER should be 1000ppm peak for flowering and 700ppm for fresh plants, or my MEDIUM should be at 1000ppm or 700ppm?


>Soil test the Coco every week

6. You might answer this when answering the above question, but I want to know.... When I test the soil like you said, what do I want my ppm and ph to be?

7. Do I have to use DISTILLED water, or can I use RO water for this?

8. When I "Dig into it" won't I mess up some roots?

[The Cannarchist]

1) Yes
2)Yes
3)yes
4) Not sure ,I never measure the volume going in as I use a 3 in one meter and just add till it says the correct number.(50 gal drum)
5)Your nute strength,the medium should be just below what you put in PPM wise with your nutes
6)Ph between 5.8 and 6.5 ,PPM under the amount you just fed it with.If PPM is high just use plain water until it lowers.
7)Yes
8)Not a problem.Just use a different pot each week.

[LumpyStatus]

1. I was just thinking... What exactly does 10% runoff mean? How can I tell that I am getting 10% runoff?

2. Also, my mother/clone room is in the same room as my flowering room (seperated in a hydrohut) The hut is not 100% light proof but it is pretty close. I have sealed it pretty damn good, but the zippers still have a "glow" to them. It is ALMOST light tight but not quite. I was thinking, in nature when plants grow, they have sun during the day and the moon at night, not exactly light tight right? So will I be ok as long as it isn't too bright? Or do I need to keep absolutley every tiny bit of light out?

I can't thank you enough. If I can ever re-pay you, I will. If you need anything, just ask.

[The Cannarchist]

1) Lets say for example that you feed the tray with a total of 10 gals of solution.You should over water each pot a little bit so that there is nute coming out the bottom.The run off is this amount and if you had put 10 gals in you should get 1 gal left in the tray afterwards. This ensures that 1)the medium is saturated and 2) you are leaching out any excess nutrient salts that may be accumulating in the medium.When you do the plain water feed you can have lots of run off.The aim is to stop nutrient build up in the COCO by doing this flushing process.

2)I would put a flap of loose plastic stuck to the top and covering the zipper line like a curtain.Light leaks = potential for hermies.....

If you take pics as you go we will be able to transfer knowledge better.

It is all about the plant.:pipe:

[LumpyStatus]

Clones will be here any day now...Will post pics once planted.

I have gotten my seeds delivered and am already soaking them....I am going to pop them in rockwool (I always have) then transfer to coco.

1. What is a good ppm for seedlings when they show their first set of "real" leaves? When I say "real" leaves, I am talking about the fact it pops out 2 "standard" leaves and then two mj looking leaves.

2. Also, at what stage should I start boosting the ppm up.

3. What should be my MAX ppm for rapid growing mother plant?

4. Off topic... You say start at 700ppm and go to 1000ppm when plants are in full bloom, why so low with the ppm? I believe you when you say it, but lucas formula calls for 1300 ppm from the time they are under HIDs until they finish (with some flucuation obviously).

I am going to do exactly what you tell me from here on out and see my results. I just like to know your thoughts on things. Thanks.

[The Cannarchist]

1)500ppm
2)As soon as you see the bottom leaves start to pale off
3)1000
4)Many ways to skin a cat....This is my personal experience in coco.It likes to retain nutes so you need less.Lucas is the hydro master,but the rest of us like a good organic medium to grow in,coco is excellent but you have to learn the style.

The basic premis(thought) is that if nute is too weak you will get the bottom fan leaves yellowing.if too strong you will see tip burn on the new shoots.Just find the happy medium in between and your plants will be fine.Each strain has its own happy zone irregardless of style of grow.

[Zaxby]

I gotta vouch for Hesi Nutes. The;

Hesi Coco
Hesi Super Vit
Hesi PK 13/14

Program gives great results.

I've finished 60 day clones in 1 gallon handwatered containers (no topping), with "hydro-like" results.

Daily feedings/watering are required with the smaller containers though: in 2 gallon containers you can skip a day.

[Steve Pick]

I am going to try that product in the near future, Zaxby! Cool to see that you are happy with the results. I am setting up a wilma16 system with coco next month and could need some advice on timer intervals? Some say once a day other 4-5 times. Coco-bricks.

I am following The Cannarchists way. Thanx for the tips!

[Albi]

If you just read futher above you will see how to properly feed the bricks Steve!

Tell me when its ready I'll come over and help you out...

[Lungus]

I just made up my first coco mix with basically the same organic amendments as I was using with peat mix only with less kelp meal as the coco has quite a bit of K to begin with. It has got to sit for a few weeks and mellow out as it's pretty hot right now with the blood meal and high percentage of worm castings in it. Then I'm going to run some plants in it next round and see how they do as compared to the peat mix. With my organic peat mix this time most of the plants did not have to be fed at all from transplant to finish, just watered with a little molasses, most everything they needed was in the pot to begin with which made caring for them very easy.

[LumpyStatus]

Hey Cannarchist,

My clones still aren't ready but will be VERY soon. I will be getting 50 of them tomorrow, but in the meantime I had a couple questions and pics.

I have received my beans and popped them using rockwool, let them grow a bit and put the cube into coco. Some of them are starting to look funny. I am giving them the 500ppm of the nova and ph 5.8 (actually only fed once so far in the coco because the coco is staying moist). Anyways, the pics speak for themselves. Two of them look really good, and 3 of them look strange and wonder what you think. I also attached a picture of my first ever clone I have really done successfully, wanted to know if you think she healthy or a little pale.

Seed Strain: Sage n Sour (mostly sativa)
Clone Strain: Sour Diesel (also sativa)

By the way, they are all in the same medium, same ppm and same ph. These beans are TEST beans, want to make sure I get things correct before I pop my real beans (serious seeds chronic).

[The Cannarchist]

Let the coco dry out and then feed just water until you see the cotyldon(rounded base leaf) start to go pale then feed again.They really do not need much in the first two weeks or so.Sprouts do not like wet feet....

[LumpyStatus]

Alright...thanks.

How about the clone? She lookin ok?

[The Cannarchist]

Just fine Lumpy

[LumpyStatus]

Ok...I took a couple new pics, she looks possibly yellowing. I boosted the ppm to 850 and the tips of the leaves are starting to get a bit greener. Look at the pics and let me know what you think.

[The Cannarchist]

You got holes cut in the bottom of those cups

[LumpyStatus]

Yes I do.... Well, they are "slits" to drain excess water. Should I make larger holes so they dry faster?

[The Cannarchist]

Just asking....Some folk miss that and drown their plants!

Up the feed ppm as you are doing.

Id like you to do a little Ph test by putting straight RO or distilled water in and doing a Ph check of the run off.I found that coco starts high in ph ,around 8.4, so you may need to drop your nutes to 5,2 for a while to get it down to a better level.I say this as your clone looks OK but is pale at the top rather than at the bottom which would be the case if your ppms were too low.I like coco but it is hard to get the stuff going right.

Report back

Ta

[LumpyStatus]

It seems to me that ALL the new growth is a bit pale, not just the top of the plant. Anything new that is coming in is a bit pale. Anyways, I will get those results for you in the morning. (PST)

[LumpyStatus]

I lied.... I did the test, not waiting until morning. Here are the results....

PH - 6.1
PPM - 461

So it definatley seems that even though I am feeding with 700ppm that the plants are using it up quickly....sooooo

At this point do I wait for the coco to dry before watering again, or should I go ahead and feed again now?

[The Cannarchist]

You are correct

As long as the coco is not sopping i would give them a hit of nutes

[LumpyStatus]

I transfered that one clone to a 2 gal grow bag and upped the input ppm to 900, runoff was slightly over 1000ppm. I went ahead and pulled my light back a bit (125w cfl) incase I am getting light bleaching??

I don't understand why it is REALLY pale yellow on the insides of the leaves (closest to the stock) and nice darker green on the outer leaves. I cannot find a deficiency chart that displays this.... Wondering what might be going on... It has only been 12 hours since I upped the ppm, looks like the new growth MIGHT be getting slightly darker green...

[c-ray]

that's a classic iron deficiency
you can foliar feed with some molasses (since they are veg not flower) 10ml of molasses per litre of water once or twice in a week, that'll be fine for now hopefully the plant will be able to get the iron it needs from the floranova (when it's roots are bigger) or perhaps you need to add molasses or up the ppm

[tomatogrower]

that's a classic iron deficiency
you can foliar feed with some molasses (since they are veg not flower) 10ml of molasses per litre of water once or twice in a week, that'll be fine for now hopefully the plant will be able to get the iron it needs from the floranova (when it's roots are bigger) or perhaps you need to add molasses or up the ppm

if your nutes are ok, it could be that ph is out?

[The Cannarchist]

Try this Lumpy as a foliar feed

http://www.spray-n-growhydroponics.com/sng_prod.htm

[Albi]

was also thinking too low ph and that prob of too wet coco...

[LumpyStatus]

Do I actually need to foliar feed if I already upped the ppm to 1000?

Should I be foliar feeding my seed sprouts as well? What should ppm for seeds be when first sprouted and how do I know when to up it higher?

[nuggdigger]

that's a classic iron deficiency

absolutely correct analysis IMO.
Iron is a key catalyst in chlorophyll production and is used in photosynthesis.
Deficiency symptoms: Leaves turn pale and veins remain dark green. This will occur first in younger leaves and growth.Necrosis. PH imbalance makes iron insoluble.
Caused by over irrigation, excessive soluble salts, inadequate drainage, pests, high substrate pH, or nematodes.
The solution is to folair feed with chemical fertilizer containing Fe or rusty water..lol

peace:pipe:

[LumpyStatus]

Finally got my ladies today. So everything is setup and today is officially day 1... I am more or less doing a test with two different brands of coco. Split right down the middle, we have canna coco vs sunshine pro 100% coir. We will see how they compare.

-- Info --

Strain: Grand Daddy Purple (Have never grown it before, don't currently know if it is indica/sativa etc, if you all know, inform me). I have 40 of them under HID's, and 7 under 125w cfl to be mothers if the strain is good... Clones weren't as nice as I am used to, so they will need a bit of babying for a couple days. Will definatley need more than 7 days veg.

Medium: Canna coco and Sunshine pro coco

Water: Starting tap water is 220ppm and 8.1 ph. I ph down to 6.2 BEFORE adding nutes (cannarchist showed me how you need less ph down if added BEFORE you add nutes, I assume because the nutes buffer it). Then add nutes (flora nova bloom @800ppm .7 conv) to bring me to about 5.8, if not, little more ph down will do it. All hand watering, 100% no pumps, no res, no nothing.

Lighting: HID - 2x 600w HPS lamps. I use HPS for both veg and flower. Lights are starting REALLY far away the freshly rooted clones but will be moved closer soon...

Ventilation: 636 cfm elicent fan pulling through the lights, and pulling the room into a slight negative pressure, filtering through a large carbon filter. Also, 2 small oscilating fans.

------------------

I am going to have to use tap water this time around until I invest in a larger RO filter, the one I have now just won't put out enough and I don't want to store water at the moment. So tap it is. Couple questions:


1. Since I am using tap water, I remember reading that Pure Blend Pro Bloom is lower in P than floranova, and isnt P the same thing that is in my PH down? So, could I use PBP instead and not worry so much about how much ph down is needed?

2. Is it necessary to use Cal-mag with this nutrient? I hear some say yes and some say no, both with good results... Also, is there not calcium and magnesium in tap water?



I will continue to update the topic with questions and photos for anyone interested in providing some help... Can't wait to see where it takes me and what I might learn... Until then, some pics of today's work...

[The Cannarchist]

If you can get hold of Earth juice catalyst try using that as ph down.That stuff is acidic as hell and provides some choice organic additives.

The floranova is fine on its own but we will see as the plants grow.

Nice job there Lumpy looking good for some tasty treats.Heard good things about the grandaddy purps.

[LumpyStatus]

I saw the earth juice catalyst at my local hydro shop... Do you highly recommend using this? Because they only have the big bottle, and it didn't say anything about PH... It is an additive right? What effect will it have on my overall ppm?

Would you recommend I use this instead of my Advanced nutrients PH down? The Advanced nutrients ph down is VERY strong, a couple drops per gallon brings 8.1 to 6.0.

I am doing this your way. You tell me EXACTLY what to use and I will use it. I want things to go well, and I can tinker with things next time, this time, I am following your instructions.

[The Cannarchist]

Well lets go with what you have already Lumpy.

I run hydro organics so I use the catalyst as a ph down more than as an additive.But it contains some nice bacteria feed and lets me manage my permanent resevoir better.More on organics another time if you want to try.

Carry on with what you are doing.

[LumpyStatus]

I have a question...

I cannot find that spray n grow anywhere locally... Was wondering what you thought about Botanicare Profoliar spray or Earth Juice Microblast as a foliar spray? What about cal-mag as a foliar spray? I know it says cal-mag contains iron and so does the microblast, but not the botanicare...

Let me know if there is a different product I can use besides spray n grow. I can get most hydro and organic nutes, but not all.

Also, should I be using the foliar spray on my newly planted Granddad clones? How often/how much?

Should I bring the ph of my foliar spray down to 5.8 as well, or does it not matter?

[The Cannarchist]

Barium............................................ .............0.147
Cadmium........................................... ..........0.115
Calcium .................................................. .196.300
Chromium.......................................... ..........0.085
Cobalt............................................ ..............0.024
Copper .................................................. ....12.840
Iron .................................................. ......1026.000
Lithium........................................... ..............0.050
Magnesium......................................... ...1009.000
Manganese .................................................3 .470
Molybdenum........................................ ........0.647
Palladium......................................... ............0.035
Phosphorus .................................................0 .676
Potassium......................................... ...........3.326
Selenium .................................................. ...0.533
Sodium .................................................. 5110.000
Sulphur........................................... .......1959.000
Vanadium .................................................. ..0.115
Zinc .................................................. .......603.400

That is the analysis of spray N'Grow.

You can get it on Ebay

Best pH for foliar is 6.5

Any Kelp based spray will be high in Iron as well

[LumpyStatus]

Found a place I can get it locally... Should have it by tomorrow.

Should I foliar feed ALL of my vegging plants or only ones that look like they need it?

How often to feed? And should I foliar feed during flower?

[The Cannarchist]

Do all of them once a week all the way into week 3 of flower.I will not hurt and will help whilst the coco stabilizes in the rootzone. 600 ppm pH 6.5

[LumpyStatus]

Plants are looking "droopy" almost like they are over or under watered. However, they have plenty of water and I am pretty sure they are not over watered either. What else could it be? Will the foliar spray help this, or do I have something else going on?

I thought maybe the light was too much, but it is about 4+ feet away from them. They may also be getting slightly lighter green than the previous pics. Keep in mind that the plants roots are looking pretty good. When I look down the inside of the bags, I can see roots beginning to poke out.

Should I take any action or just wait and see what happens when I get the foliar spray tomorrow?

I can get some pics with different lighting if you like... let me know. Perhaps they are still trying to get used to the light, or the coco?

[The Cannarchist]

It is OK Lumpy,

If you actually do coco you will see this everytime you use fresh coco.

[The Cannarchist]

Use the nute as a foliar and dilute it down to 600ppm,Mist then water once a day until it stabilizes,but do not overwater the soil.Pick the plants up,feel the weight.

[The Cannarchist]

That left hand shot looks too dry ,could just be the surface.

Get one of the plants and flush it full of water.Then compare that to another plant that is dry.Your sense of weight is quite accurate


We are all looking for the happy medium.

[LumpyStatus]

I got ya... And yes, it is just the top that is drying out...

I have a brand new 50L bag of hydroton, what do you think about putting that on the top of the coco to keep the top layer from drying out?

[The Cannarchist]

Should be fine without the h'tron.

[LumpyStatus]

ok. are you saying i should mix the flora nova at 600ppm or the spray n grow for foliar? also if watering with 10 percent runoff every day would be too much, should i use less water every day or water every 2-3 days with 10 percent runoff?

[LumpyStatus]

Sorry about that post :)

I was on my cell phone.... But I think it kind of makes sense.

[LumpyStatus]

Haven't heard from you folks in a bit, hope you all have had a good thanksgiving.

I have watered one more time since we last spoke and I really think that the 10% runoff is keeping the medium WAY too wet for WAY too long...It has been 3 days now and it is still REALLY waterlogged... Maybe I need to do light watering until root development is better. Even though the rooths are getting bigger, (can see a few in the bottom of the bags) I don't think they are really full yet...

[The Cannarchist]

Back in the Saddle....Busy Busy at the moment with my own.

DO NOT water(or feed) until the coco dries out............Once the bags are dry,feel the weight of them.Then fill with water or nute,feel that weight again.You are looking to feed/water once the weight is 20% of the full wet weight.

Go to a nursery and buy a moisture meter,cheap @ $5.

You can foliar with either @ 600ppm Ph 6.5.Just once a week to keep them tip top

[Green Supreme]

What Canny said. The weight is the way to go. Hands on baby. Get the feel for when they are happy and when they are not. To me neither completely wet nor completely dry is good, so avoid them if you can. You can do it. Good luck. Peace GS

[LumpyStatus]

I have a little update and also some questions/possible problems...

I have posted new pics for reference...

I think they are still recovering from overwatering. It seems that I watered well over a week ago and I still don't think they are dry enough to warrant another watering. The new growth is looking greener, but still not really healthy like I would expect. I think the 2 gal pots are either too big, too packed together or I just simply watered too much. Top layer is drying out however the bottoms still seem really wet. The pots still feel pretty heavy to me. I included a pic with the bag pulled down to see...

1. Is it ok for the top layer to be dry like that?

2. The new growth is looking mostly healthy, however, some has gotten some crispy/burnt edges, this all happened when I watered heavily over a week ago and they still have not dried out enough...

3. It is about 2 weeks into veg and not much growth (some, but not as much as should be for 2 weeks). Should I be worried or change anything? Should I water a LOT less next time?

4. I included a pic of a stem with some powdery looking substance on it, could this be powdery mildew starting? It is on a couple plants but not all. Should I foliar spray with some neem oil or what should I do?

5. Should I ever expect the lower growth to get darker green like the tops, or will that not happen?

I feel cursed here. I have had many successful grows in coco, without near this many problems. It seems that my green thumb has turned black. I can't grow hydro, I can't grow coco, or sunshine mix. I don't know what I am doing wrong, guess I just watered too much. Please provide any assistance you can, I really appreciate it.

Quite a few pics attached, more if you need them. I know they look underwatered, but they are still heavy and lots of moisture in the bottom half+ of the bags. Just below the dry stuff it is slightly moist and the deeper you go, the more wet it gets. Please help me :(

[The Cannarchist]

Wet feet,

Foliar feed as I said but once every three days.Wait for that coco to dry out.It always took me two weeks to get the coco to start rocking.

[LumpyStatus]

Haven't heard anything in a bit. I understand you all are busy people like me :)

Anyways, I am so frustrated and about to throw out $500 worth of plants and toss my equipment and give up for good. I just don't know what to do anymore...

So here is the deal. I am pretty sure I have k deficiency, see pic of the leaf. So I am currently trying to correct that problem.

My LATEST problem is what I believe is MOLD in my COCO? You can't see it really well in the pic, but in quite a few of the pots I see some white "fuzzy" stuff on the top and down the sides of the coco and the grow bags. I WAITED until the pots dried up before I watered and this is what happened a couple days later. WHAT THE HELL IS IT? Most importantly, can it be harmful to me or my family? If it can be, I will yank them tomorrow and give up on this whole project.

Someone please respond and let me know what I should do...

[LumpyStatus]

any ideas canny?

[nuggdigger]

ok..im not canny..and i never grew in coir...have you ever seen alkali soils?
its so obvious to me...the leaves look scorched from over nute feed...and hey look at the white stuff on top of the coir..yes some of it is mold, which is not that bad, but its nutes too. Its dried up salt crystals..from your feed.
Mold takes light and water to grow on top of the media, so under the surface its not growing as much. Mold is..um...a sign of an active microbiology in your media, this is why i don't consider it the worst of things, although it can steal some o2 in the media and not let it breathe as well. So if mold takes light and water to grow...then cover the media, and it can't grow. But really i suspect a lot of what we are seeing is dried salt crystals that have accumulated on the surface of the coir from media wet/dry cycles and watering. lets go back to the leaf, yes there are signs of cal, but there are signs of many other things too. When you get a situation where a lot of signs are manifesting them selves all at once, then you can't say its this..or that...its really a lot of things at once..and this is why I'm saying general over fertilization. One nute makes the next one inaccessible in the plant so you can get signs of over or under fertilization at the same time as well. That leaf can't be repaired, once its grown..its grown..but you can make sure the leaves to grow will not be over fertilized if you flush that excess salt out of the media.
how strong is your runoff??

peace
t=d

[The Cannarchist]

White stuff on the surface is good I do not suspect that it is nute crystals like Nugg says as you have only been going for a short while.It is bacterial growth.I get it all the time.

What I want you to do is do a soil check.Dig your hand in and grab out a handfull of the coco and mix it with an equal amount of distilled/RO water.let sit for half hour then sieve off the coco and do a Ph reading.My bet is that it is alkaline.Every time I start fresh coco it starts of very alkali so I put my nute AND plain water in at 5.2 ,it takes about 2 weeks for the coco to rebalance itself to a working level.

Do the soil test and show more pics of complete plant for me Lumpy.

Keep smiling

[The Cannarchist]

Your new growth looks fine.I really think that the Ph is slowly getting rebalanced as you add in @ 5.8.

If the soil test comes out as alkali then start to put nute and water in @ 5.2 to speed up the correction.

In the mean time do the foliar feed as I suggested.

[LumpyStatus]

Did the soil test using arrowhead distilled water, results:

PH - 6.1
PPM @.7 - 800

I will get some pics later on. Working now.

[LumpyStatus]

Thought I would mention that I did the test your way and the "flush" way to be sure...

I took the coco out by hand and added the distilled and I also flushed a plant with the distilled and the results were about the same.

I don't think the roots are developing as well as they should be. I have grown in coco before with REALLY fast root development, at the 2 week mark the bags were literally filled with roots, it is almost 3 weeks now and the roots are growing, but not very fast.

Guess it could be too wet coco, maybe my temps are not warm enough (70 lights on and about 66-68 lights off). Or maybe humidity too high? Don't have a RH meter but will get one.

[nuggdigger]

ok...i think id go with your first guess, being K,
but im thinking more from the toxicity side...
peace

[The Cannarchist]

That and not enough transpiration and root growth to suck up the overfeed.

[LumpyStatus]

So you think that even though may ppm is only 800 that I am toxifying my plants? How can I increase transpiration? Is my room too cold at 66-72 degrees?

[The Cannarchist]

Yes you need to up it to 77-80

The PPM 's are fine.

[LumpyStatus]

So can I conclude from this that I am feeding OK. However I don't have enough roots to take up all the nutrient? Causing a potassium def, or a toxicity causing the def? Please explain for my own knowledge.

So am I to assume that since my temps were so low (66-68 lights off, 70-72 lights on) that is the reason I have very slow root growth? Or is the slow root growth caused by something else?

I think the root zone is probably even colder than my cannopy temps because the plants are so packed in there with little breathing room in between each pot which insulates the cold root zone and keeps it cold.

Am I correct in my understanding of things here? Is there such thing as a LARGE heat mat to keep my root zone temps higher when things are so cold around here? Should I perhaps stop air cooling my lights and remove the glass from them to allow things to heat up a bit more? I pull a TON of air through my lights, that is why things don't heat up much during lights on...

[Lungus]

Put a motor control (dimmer) on the fan motor that cools the lights and dial it down until your temps come up, then as the weather gets warmer speed the fan up to cool the light more.

[LumpyStatus]

Good idea... I actually used to have one on it in a previous setup...

I will do that... Also, short of actually running my furnace at night (I almost never run it to keep the bills lower), what can I do to keep temps up at night?

Is there such thing as a 6x3 heat mat like the seedling heat mat? I wonder how much it would cost to run something like that... I am going to do some research here...

[LumpyStatus]

Ok folks. Sorry to say it but I have given up on this coco grow. Root zone temps too low, very little root development, burnt leaves and tooooo many problems for me to deal with. So I cut some clones and moved them out.... CW can delete this thread if they want, I am going to start a new one... Thanks for all the info.

[nuggdigger]

Is there such thing as a 6x3 heat mat like the seedling heat mat? I wonder how much it would cost to run something like that... I am going to do some research here...

yes...iv'e seen them bigger then that..used to be tons of them around in the 80's but they are hard to find these days even used..lol
...its so obvious its funny..

waterbeds:allgood2:


ohh, and if i can offer one peice of advice for next round?..stick to one method for a few rounds to develop your learning curve, and give it a chance.

peace

[LumpyStatus]

Thanks for the response. This is why I am going back to the sunshine mix. It is something I have used with great success before and I just need to get a few new grows under my belt, apparently I have gotten rusty over the years that I haven't been growing. I have had success in coco, and would love to use it again, but I have a couple bales of sunshine, so that is what I am going to use this round. So we move on to my new topic!

https://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=4218

[Green Supreme]

Careful with those heat mats. GS used one once and fried all his little babies. Those things get hot. I'd recommend some sort of an airspace or insulation between the mat and bottom of tray. Maybe I did it wrong. Peace GS

[nuggdigger]

lol..GS..i meant the whole waterbed!.heater..liner..water..and even frame if you like.
the trays go ontop of the water matress of course, a literal ocean of clones..lol...now thats even heat distribution;)
peace

[Green Supreme]

No I was talking about one of those cutting heat mats you can buy at home depot. Peace GS

[LumpyStatus]

Yes, they raise the temp 10-20 degrees F above ambient. Which if it is 70f, temps could potentially go up to 90f which is way too hot. This is the reason I purchased a heat mat thermostat to keep the root zone a constant 77f. Works perfectly.