Leaf edges curling upwards and in?

[gojo]

Hi,

I don't have a digital camera to show you but my plant's sun leaves are curling up and in upon themselves (at the edges not the tips). It seems to be starting on lower leaves first. It's not on all sun leaves, only a few of the sun leaves on each plant so far. I don't see any other indicators of health issues.

I am using 100% coir and FloraNova Grow as the main nutrient (they're in veg).

p.s. I'll try to get a digital camera and post pics tomorrow or tonight.

TIA :)

[The Cannarchist]

Room temp?

[gojo]

Hey,

Room/canopy temps are 75-80 and sometimes reaches 85.

thanks

[The Cannarchist]

The leaf blades starting to look like canoes?Dry edges?

[nuggdigger]

hmm my immediate thoughts are mg def..epsom salts the easy cure..

at any rate im guessing you have some sort of a toxicity/deficiency of something or a combination of things..the best cure is usually "flush and reset"....

so hard to tell without pics..here's one i was able to find of mg deficiency..the fans are curved up along the edges, not from the tips..fwiw...

peace:pipe:

[gojo]

Hey,

One thing I noticed is that the Jack Herrers are not exhibiting this curl nearly as much as the indica dom. plants. In fact, only one Jack Herrer is exhibiting this and only on one fan leaf.

I'll buy a digi cam tomorrow and post the pics...

> The leaf blades starting to look like canoes?Dry edges?

yup, no other indicators of health issues and RH is 40-45%. I thought it may be an issue with AC blowing on them so I diverted the air flow yesterday (I've got central AC).

> at any rate im guessing you have some sort of a toxicity/deficiency

I'm pretty sure it's not a nutrient deficiency and not nutrient toxification as there are no indicators of either; save the leaf curl. The plants look great and are really lush besides the leaf curl. They're growing vigorously, roots are growing fast and they're nice and white.

I transplanted them a week and a half ago from 9oz cups (which I sprouted them in). I put them into 2gal pots w/coir which I pre-soaked with 8ml FloraNova Grow, 15ml earthworm castings, 5ml blackstrap molasses, AN piranha and AN tarantula. Then they got straight H20 for a week and I just watered them with 8ml FloraNova Grow 2 days ago.

Thanks guys! :D

[gojo]

Hi,

Well here's some pics...click on the pic to see full size image in better resolution...

[The Cannarchist]

If your room temps wern't what they are I'd swear it was heat stress....

So ,discounting that ,I'd say your nutes are too strong and you are getting toxicity.and/Or a ph imbalance that is locking out magnesium.

Personally I'd back off the floranova to 5ml/gal(after a plain water flush).The tops look healthy but the thing that hits me is that the leaves are quite matt in sheen which tells me you are pumping them too hard.

It's back to that old saying...."less is more".

I'd just apply straight water for a few times and use the floranova as a foliar feed at the rate off 500 ppm .

You said you had coir in there?Can't see any....Coir at the start is very alkaline and needs time to settle out.That would definately be locking out the Mg.

"Take two asprins and call me in the morning".....LOL

[gojo]

Hey,

Ok, that sounds good, I'll give it a try. Although, I thought Mg def. showed by yellowing veins on the leaf? Should I spray them with epsom salt?...or just use straight H20 for a bit?

The grow rocks are only a very thin layer over the coir.

thanks!

[c-ray]

your plants look fine...is it possible that you are using lots of fulvic acid, plant hormones and/or amino acids? and that is causing extra cell growth on the leaves? giving them enough light ie is that hid or cfls? humidity on the low side?

def doesn't look like heat cupping or mag deficiency to me

[The Cannarchist]

Maybe it was the A/C blowing on them C-ray?

[gojo]

Hi,

> is it possible that you are using lots of fulvic acid, plant hormones and/or amino acids?

I did start using superthrive when I transplanted them at 1/4tsp per gal.

One thought that occurred to me last night was my use of AN piranha and tarantula. I'm pretty sure tarantula has lots of humic acid (black) and seaweed. Maybe that is effecting them? I guesstimated the amount to give them as I didn't have my scale to weight the AN powder (label says 3g per gal).

> giving them enough light ie is that hid or cfls?

400w MH with new bulb hung about 15 inches above canopy.

> humidity on the low side?

Yes. RH hangs around 40%. I started using a cool mist humidifier yesterday, trying to get RH to around 50%. But, it was my understanding that 40% was not too low?

--------------

After looking at them very closely this morning I noticed what looks like the very beginning of leaf tip burn...only the very slightest dis-coloration which generally precedes tip burn in my experience. This would not have bother me in the slightest as it's so minimal but when the leaf curl is taken into consideration it may help narrow the cause of the leaf curl. Though, IMVHO the curl and tip dis-coloration are independent of each other; it's only coincidence they happened at the same time I think.

Another interesting thing to note (as I did in a previous post) is that the Jack Herer's are not exhibiting this leaf curl nearly as much as the indica dom plants.

Thanks so much to you all!

[Lungus]

I did start using superthrive when I transplanted them at 1/4tsp per gal.
You only need a drop or two per gal., a 1/4 tsp. would be enough for 5-10 gal. of water or nutrient. It sounds like possibly the Tarantula might be your problem, but there's no need to use that much Superthrive.

[gojo]

Hi,

> It sounds like possibly the Tarantula might be your problem,

Yea, god damn AN :( . Any good products to replace Tarantula (eg. beneficial bacteria)? So, the the leaf curl should not be a continuous problem into flower if I use straight H2O for the next few waterings correct? The humic should be used up by plants/bacteria and/or washed out right?

> You only need a drop or two per gal...[snip]...there's no need to use that much Superthrive.

That's odd as the directions call for 1/4tsp per gal. Guess they're just trying to sell more product? I'll use a few drops per gal from now on. On a side note: Superthrive should not be used in flower correct?

:D

[nuggdigger]

Though, IMVHO the curl and tip dis-coloration are independent of each other; it's only coincidence they happened at the same time I think.


to me these are both threshold signs of nute lockout. I consider them related as they both can be considered signs of general toxicity. We are batting the same two bushes here, and rightly so, for the same reasons. Environmental conditions directly effect plant transpiration rates...too strong of a nutrient accumulation in the plant can cause an ionic root imbalance so that the plants close down the roots effectively stopping the uptake of water for plant hydration. We also touched on mg being unavailable to the plant.
Lots to content to consider here..
I'd just apply straight water for a few times and use the floranova as a foliar feed at the rate off 500 ppm .

I consider great advice..much like i said before..flush and reset, flush to rinse off the nute accumulation causing roots to close..and reset so the plant gets a fresh batch of well balanced food.


or my fav advice so far.."Take two asprins and call me in the morning".....LOL

goodluck mon, and thanx for the encouraging pm..

ps..i dont think the leafcurl is the same one as the hoped for p19 pheno..if that is what your wondering,

peace:pipe: