My contention w/Pistilwhipt's & Lucas's bottom branch pruning 4 yeild method

[guest]

Hello,

I was having conversation with a friend who shared a different opinion from my own. I was hoping some one could provide information in regards to pruning and yield; data to back up claims would be excellent!...I'm not looking for anecdotal evidence.

We both agreed that pruning the apical meristem (a.k.a "topping") usually increases yield due to the diffusion of auxins which control apical dominance (AD). The resulting 'competition' of the remaining lateral shoots/branches for AD provides more and better main budding sites which increases yield. We also both agreed this should be done as per Pistilwhipt's and Lucas's suggestions (that is: top at the 6th or 7th node, one time only and before flowering).

My friend likes to prune the bottom 3 or so branch pairs and shoots as he says it increases yield (ala "Pistilwhipt's" and "Lucas's" method). I like to keep the lower branches with a few caveats: that they are healthy and do not restrict air flow or light to the 'main' branches/bud sites. These 'popcorn' buds make excellent bubble hash and IMVHO they do not detract from overall yield, IMO they increase it merely due to their presence.

As I mentioned, we disagree that trimming the lower shoots/branches will increase yield. His idea is that if you trim lower shoots/branches then the plant can put more energy into the remaining budding sites to produce a greater individual and overall bud yield. This idea seems to suggest that there is a finite amount of 'energy' a plant has to produce buds and if that energy is not spent upon popcorn buds it will be diverted to the main branches...I do not believe this is how a plant works (but I could be wrong). I believe a plant will provide each budding site with an amount of energy proportional to that of the light reaching the budding site and other environmental factors (temp, nutrient, air, etc). As such, I also believe a plant will provide the same amount of energy to main budding sites irregardless of whether bottom branches are trimmed (caveats not withstanding).

While I agree it's much easier to deal with a plant with trimmed lower branches I think in the end you will harvest more with these popcorn buds intact (caveats not withstanding). I'm going to spend some time looking online for information to prove or disprove my gut feeling...

Any opinions, thoughts, etc are very welcome!

:D

[The Cannarchist]

Energy in = energy out
Light in = Bud out
energy can be directed.
But each time you prune you are wasting energy on repairing the cut.

Mostly it depends on strain Gojo.Some strains have so much inner "fluff" that it is better to redirect the energy into the tips by carving off the inner nodes.

Vision Thai is a good example of this.And flips both ways.I like the outer tip nugs to smoke as they are by far stronger than the fluff,but you will get a ton of fluff if not pruned....and thus you will get more bubble at the end of the day.

IMHO it is strain related.

But for bugs and mold issues i'd prune all the time.

[guest]

Hey,

I didn't consider bugs, mold, etc; thats a good point. I do very much agree it's a matter of how a specific strain responds and grows.
tahnks

[kindlydank]

The REAL advantage of Pistilwhipt-stripping a plant is not about adding to the total weight, but rather about the quality of the nugs. You can drive a nail with PW style nugs.

Total yield on both systems are about the same, as AFOAF has proven to me time and time again over the years. Sorry, I have no concrete numbers for you...

I concede that you have lots of bubble material on an unpruned plant, but why? If you had a choice between 10 oz of tight bud, 4 oz of mediocre bud, and 2 oz of fluff OR INSTEAD have all 16 oz as rock-solid Coke bottle colas, which one would you choose? If you want the bubble, make it out of the Coke bottles. :clap:

BTW: PW's system and Lucas's system aren't exactly the same. Lucas tops at the 7th node, then trims out the bottom 3 branches, leaving the resulting 4 branches to grow natural. PW does that, but goes a step further by pruning all side branches from the 4 main branches all the way up to the growth tips until about 10 days into 12/12. :aok: That took quite a set of balls to try that for the first time!! :)

kindlydank :bongin:

[Lungus]

I've been using the PW style of pruning for years only I do my last prune at two weeks of 12/12. I scared the shit out of myself the first time I did it but I was sold upon seeing the results.

[guest]

Hey,

I didn't start this thread to discount anecdotal evidence of pruning lower branches to increase yield or quality of remaining cannabis...I believe you all and intend to prune Lucas way.

Though, due my geeky nature, I am looking for scientific explanations or evidence that shows removing lower branches allows more/greater energy to be used on the remaining branches. When we talk about topping a plant we can point to "apical dominance" and repression of auxins/hormones for an explanation...I am looking for something similar with lower branches.

[c-ray]

for starters the remaining branches are closer to the light, and have higher osmotic sap pressure

[kindlydank]

A cool trick that works in conjunction with PW stripping is to train the final growing tips in a circle around a cool tube hung vertically. You get the advantages of a vert grow without the insane plant counts of a coliseum or the fluff from a vertical scrog.

Its for damn sure the closest my friend came to 2 g/w... again, sorry, no solid data -- just experience.

Why don't you try some side-by-side grows and report your findings?

kindlydank :bongin:

[crazy cooter]

Energy in = energy out
Light in = Bud out
energy can be directed.
But each time you prune you are wasting energy on repairing the cut.

I agree with this, but does repairing a cut really require all that much energy from a plant? Normally when you prune a plant, the cut itself is healed within just a couple hours. The larger the diameter of the branch/stem you're pruning, the more energy/time is required to heal, of course.

I do believe that pruning increases the energy expenditure of the plant, but I say that because of the nice green tissue you're removing that the plant "worked" to produce. I can imagine the plant going, "Hey man! I grew that tissue for a reason, smart guy!" heh heh

I'm a big pruner indoors (outdoors I'm in too much of a hurry when I visit the plots) and agree that it's highly strain-dependent.

[extinctx11]

Instead of jumping into the scientific approach... which is all basically theory, practice, and assumptions based on theories...

lets take a logical look at the plants themselves with what we already KNOW for SURE.

I KNOW for SURE:

The closer you can get parts of the plant to the light, the better, assuming you dont burn them. Agree/disagree?

Different plants respond differently to different growing conditions and techniques. Some like LST, some like Topping, some prefer their main cola, some like big food some hate it. Agree/disagree?

Everyones growing space and setup is different. Some have high humidity, some have poor ventillation, some are tall, some are short. Agree/Disagree?


If you agree with these 3 simple obvious things (obvious to me) then it would make obvious (logical?) sense there are TOO many variables to just make a blanket statement about whats the best way to get the best yield!

you should prune/top/LST/grow overall in response to these variables! In order to KNOW for SURE if a given PLANT (notice I didnt say strain) will LIKE or NOT LIKE being pruned, I would simply advise taking clones and trying different methods. I guarantee that every single plant will take to different methods differently! Work with your space! If you are short on space, SOG or SCROG might be your game. if your given plant loves to sidebranch, perhaps some LST would be the way to go. If your plant hates sidebranching, perhaps a single cola would work the best.

My point is, every plant should be treated as an individual to get the absolute best results. Everyone that pays individual attention to each plant gets better results! If you feed all of them the same, some will burn some will starve! if you harvest them all at the same time, some will be immature and some will be over done! Making generalized statements about a plant which has thousands, probably millions of different preferences based on all these variables is just wrong.

Work with what you are 100% sure of, and then work forwards from there. Dont jump to Z without going B-Y first.