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nuggdigger
04-12-2007, 06:16 AM
VERTICAL AND ROTATING GARDENS have become a relatively common sight in today’s hydroponics shops. Although more recently popularized, the concept has been around for some time. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon were one of the seven wonders of the old world and were described by Diodorus Siculus, a Greek historian, in the following way:

“The approach to the Garden sloped like a hillside and the several parts of the structure rose from one another tier on tier.... On all this, the earth had been piled...and was thickly planted with trees of every kind that, by their great size and other charm, gave pleasure to the beholder.... The water machines [raised] the water in great abundance from the river, although no one outside could see it.”

Though vertical gardens can be a thing of beauty, more important, for the purposes of gardening with artificial lighting, they can be extremely productive per square foot of floor space occupied. Vertical and rotating gardens have been popularized with a variety of designs. Most designs promote equidistant lighting as a primary benefit for overall crop quality and consistency. As most HID lighting offers a 360-degree pattern of illumination, it makes sense to wrap the garden around the light source. Conventional gardens aim to redirect HID light into a linear pattern to deliver it to the plant canopy. Though reasonably effective, a considerably larger area of square footage is required when delivering HID lighting in a linear pattern.

For example, as a rule of thumb one 1000-W HID lamp is suspended 18 in. (~46 cm) above the plant canopy to illuminate an area of 4 x 4 ft. (120 x 120 cm) in a conventional garden. In a vertical garden, the arrangement is typically cylindrical in shape, as will be our calculations. Stick with me here. So, 18 in. of lamp-to-canopy tolerance translates into a 3-ft. (90-cm) diameter (think circle). Most vertical gardens require little vegetative growth and plants finish at relatively shorter “heights,” say, on average 18 in. That means we have to wrap 18 in. in finished plant height around a 1000-W HID lamp while leaving about 18 in. of lamp-to-plant canopy clearance.

Diameter = radius x 2

Circumference = (pi) x diameter

The diameter resulting from the arrangement suggested above would be 6 ft. (~2 m), i.e., (18 in. x 2) + (18 in. x 2), so, 6 ft. x 3.14 = 18.84 ft. (~6 m). Already we have more surface area (square footage) than our conventional garden (16 sq. ft. or ~1.4 m2), but it goes further. Our cylindrical garden stands about 4 ft. tall, so we must multiply 18.84 (square footage/diameter) x 4 (garden height) to get a total surface area/square footage of about 75 sq. ft. (~7 m2).

In the end, this translates into about five times the area for plant material to be brightly lit than a conventional garden. However, this is just math and not the real world. There are many other factors to be considered, including the fact that 1000-W HIDs are often not the wattage of choice for vertical gardens. However, the above does exemplify that vertical gardens, particularly cylindrical gardens, may offer significantly greater yield advantage potential per square foot of floor space occupied, as well as per watt of HID lighting used. The rotating models offer the additional benefit of minimizing shadows. The fact that the plants will receive some light on their undersides in rotating gardens helps the plants remain more compact and consistent in finish from top to bottom of the stem.

In a day and age where square footage and electricity are becoming increasingly expensive, the additional initial investment associated with manufactured vertical gardens may be offset with their increases in productivity and efficiency.

Air movement, temperature, and carbon dioxide levels may also be more uniform in the plant canopy using vertical and rotating gardens. Stationary vertical gardens also take advantage of the natural tendency for heat to rise. Essentially, a cylindrical vertical garden may become like a rather large duct for air movement. If fresh CO2 supplemented air is drawn from the bottom of the garden and discharged by fans straight up, all plants in the garden receive relatively even air quality and temperatures while remaining in a constant breeze. This helps provide uniformity in growth pattern, an important consideration in any HID-lit garden, but increasingly critical in vertical gardens.

Air-cooling of HID lighting is also simplified in this fashion. Multiple lamps may be suspended over top of the other; the height of the garden is simply increased proportionately with the addition of lamps. A tremendous advantage to vertical gardens is that when increases in production levels are required, the grower may simply build up, meaning that the square footage of floor space can remain the same while increasing vertical height to expand the garden.

There are also special considerations in growing protocol where vertical gardens are concerned. Typically, vertical and rotating gardens will require large numbers of plants. Plants must grow relatively short to take advantage of the efficiency using equidistant lighting, so side branching is minimized and avoided. As a result, the wrap-around effect of the garden is based more on a sea-of-green type of approach to plant heights and spacing. For example, a vertical garden with a 6-ft. (~2-m) diameter and an overall height of 6 ft. using two 1000-W HID lamps or three 600-W HID lamps may house in the range of 350 plants per crop — a commercial propagators dream!

It is very important to maintain uniformity in vertical and rotating gardens. The design of such gardens tends to promote this tendency; however, the genetics used must be selected carefully for these gardens to offer their maximum efficiency. For production-minded gardens, all plantings should be of the same variety. In fact, they should be from the same plant. Some growers using rotating gardens in Quebec, Canada noticed significant increases in their yields when all of the cuttings planted were from the same main plant, not just the same variety. They attributed this to uniformity in growth. Slight variations in plant vigor may become amplified, diminishing uniformity in vertical and rotating gardens.

Strains that have a natural tendency to produce compact plants are best suited for vertical and rotating gardens, particularly those that do not exhibit much vertical growth after initiating the flowering cycle. The grower needs to know just how many inches of growth to expect to maturity once changing to the critical lighting cycle for flowering. Remember that the lights will remain stationary.

Plants can be manipulated to remain shorter in stature through a variety of cultural practices, including controlling the nutrient and additive regimen, the day/night temperature differentials, the air movement, and the lighting. Nutrients that contain lower nitrogen levels, particularly with little or no nitrogen in the ammonium form, are best suited. Organic nutrients may also work well in vertical gardens. There are chemical additives that may be used to keep internodal distances at a minimum at the onset of flowering. Additional additives can be used once structural growth has stopped, typically four weeks after initiating the flowering cycle.

The fact that the plants grown in these types of systems are often just single stems makes processing the crop expedient and efficient. The overall quality of produce and inflorescence tends to be very consistent. Crop turnaround and planting time vary with the different models available. Although systems that are more media-based tend to take longer to prepare for successive crops, the increased volume of substrate helps to buffer nutrients, temperatures and pH at the root zone, contributing to healthier and happier harvests.

gisisi
07-28-2007, 10:30 PM
From another thread about vert:
ss4/perlite/verm and watering a hydro-organic solution

Would you go into more detail about this?
What is the advantage of vermiculite, perlite, and peat over vermiculite and perlite alone?
What are the ratios of these media?
What hydro-organic nute?

Feel free to answer any or none at all.
Just interested, as I would like to run some of ddoc's wall gardens.

thanks for your time

gisisi

Green Supreme
07-28-2007, 10:37 PM
Adding peat means watering less frequently. Peace GS

nuggdigger
07-29-2007, 05:05 AM
GS is correct...its also about adding more CEC
hydro-organic is, for me, using 70% chem nutes for main plant balance..and using 30% organic nutes, to sweeten it up. I use GGold and Metanaturals..but options are wide open i bet.
Concerning media ratios in a vertical system, one needs upwards to 50% percent perlite by ratio. Initally i ran solely perlite. My last coli load was 70% perlite with 30% vermiculite. Then i removed this media and mixed it with 50-70% ss#4 and refilled the coli.
A good ss#4 ratio and perlite is 50/50 because ss4 has perlite in it and you end up at the 70% perlite range.

im happy to share more..

peace:pipe:

gisisi
07-29-2007, 05:19 AM
GS is correct...its also about adding more CEC

cation exchange capacity?

Does the high ratio of perlite prevent the compaction that usually happens with a mix that has organic components, such as peat or coir?

70% chem nutes for main plant balance..and using 30% organic nutes, to sweeten it up

Is this mix 70/30 in all nutrient solution, or is the 30% metanaturals fed separately for a flush of sorts?

Anything you don't like about the P/V mix, or are you just changing it up?

gisisi

gisisi
07-29-2007, 05:45 AM
Regarding clones and placement:

What is your preferred method for the coliseum?
When I used to read ddoc's forum, growers were cloning in tall skinny pots (about 1"x6") called deepots. (for tree seedling production)

Supposedly this places the roots in the stream of nutrients near the back of the coliseum, and obviates hand watering to get them started.

Your experience?

thanks

gisisi

nuggdigger
07-29-2007, 07:10 AM
right..by CEC im refering to cation exchange capacity. Why is this important to me if im a hydro grower?? Because i also strive to have a organic flair:kind:
Hydro buds are great big things..but there is a special essence to be had from organic buds that i just can't resist:drool: In order to be able to have an organic "matrix", like in soil, you must also have a higher CEC in your media i am told.
So my goal is to give my plants a complete balanced feed from the hydro nutes, and also be able to "poor in some poop";)

The other thing i was noticing in perlite is that the media gained EC by transpiration of plants and evaporation..and the accumulated EC made the plants lockout. Daily or bidaily waterings in perlite were required to keep plants going well. Peat or coir have More CEC and this gives more of a buffer for nutes. Perlite prevents compaction..adds airation and drainage. A plant does not want to be to wet or dry so the goal is to make a bed of media that is hard to overwater. Its about water to air ratios in media etc.


The feed mix i do is 70/30 in the solution..but im flexable:D This only applies for me when im building buds..building plants im usually more chemmy, and mums i prefer organics..lol.

Im just changing it up..acutally my ratio is wetter then a 50:50 ss4/perlite ratio would be. Its more like 50(ss#4): 35(perlite): and 15(vermiculite). I don't really want to have the verm in there, and think my perfered media would be perlite and coir. Last round i grew veggies in my media so i fed all organic and wanted the peat, and the used per/verm was already there and paid for so i used it..lol.

When it comes to clones..for the transplant after cloning i use leaky beercups as mini pots. My prefered media is ss4 and perlite..not too wet..holds some water, and transplants easily compared to straight perlite or per/verm. If your rootball is established to the bottom in your beercup..it will be within 2" of the backwall of the coli and you should have successful transplants. Most medias wick well enough that there aren'y any dry spots really.

sorry about the rushed responses..had a busy day with my brothers wedding and both sides of the family in town..LOL

Peace:pipe:

gisisi
07-29-2007, 03:41 PM
I'm not sure what I will end up trying on this, but perlite with coir sounds cool.
(Being that it is impossible to overwater either one)

I am a big fan of hydroton for the same reason but have had it with cleaning.
My only experience using P/V was cloning in 1 gallon pots for a couple of krusty runs. It is a great cloning medium, but I've never grown to full term in it.

Have you ever watered your harvested coliseum with Hygrozime or similar, and replanted?

Being into a little organic goodness, have your ever tried a little Earth Juice in the coliseum? It has bat guano, among all the other popular ammendments, composted and liquified right there in the bottle

Something I am after here is media that I can throw in my compost after use. or water with enzyme and replant.

BTW, I am currently building tomatoes in a container of coir outside. They are blowing away the tomatoes in the ground.

Between that and the way my ebb and flow moms are doing in coir, I am quite impressed.

gisisi

gisisi
07-29-2007, 03:44 PM
My brother married a couple of summers ago several hundred miles away.
Just makes it that much more of a pain in the ass.

gisisi

nuggdigger
07-29-2007, 05:09 PM
Have you ever watered your harvested coliseum with Hygrozime or similar, and replanted?


Yes. I used to mix a reservoir of Zyme between rounds and give it to the coli to work on the roots. Also ive removed the media, screened it through the slotted nursery flats and refilled. Lately i think ive just being let it sort of dry out between rounds..then reset the media and reload..lol. I dont know if im more cheap..or lazy:shocked:
The primary goal is to add an organic solution with beneficial bacteria/fungi colonies that suppress harmful bacteria and improve the quality of new developing roots. These bacteria/fungi colonies also improve nutrient uptake in the plants and allows you to maximize the benefits of using organic fertilizers.
see the following: http://www.aristabc.com/coli_presentation/pdf/replanting.pdf

peace:pipe:

gisisi
07-29-2007, 06:19 PM
If I understand that correctly, there is no waiting.


Pull out old plants.
Refill voids with new media.
Water with organic concoction.
Replant.


I have to say, this is attractive from a lazy point of view. (mine)
The wall units are so inexpensive, in my opinion, that one could have an extra set. That would be ideal when using all new media each run.

gisisi

Green Supreme
07-29-2007, 06:56 PM
Wall garden would also be easier than the coli to sneak in and out. Nothing is much more heatscore than the coli. Peace GS

gisisi
07-29-2007, 07:18 PM
Wall garden would also be easier than the coli to sneak in and out.

They could even be moved to a coat closet.
Fits nicely on a dolly.
Four could be layed on their backs and covered with a tarp or hard cover in a long bed truck or suburban.

Another, lazier cloning idea...

Arista has 3 inches diameter by 3 inches tall compost plugs (rapid rooters)

I' not used them, but my experience with rapid rooter says thay would clone well and provide space for a little growth before transplanting.

If the medium wicks well enough, this would be less work than beer cups or deepots.

Has anyone here used these?

gisisi

nuggdigger
08-08-2007, 06:53 AM
Has anyone here used these?

though i haven't used them I've seen them and seen them used. They worked wonderfully of course. I've also heard of them being cut up into the smaller size to "make more." As fantastic as they are, i don't know how affordable they would be in a sog scenario. Well....... afford-ability is a personal preferance...LOL.
One thing beer cups allow is a nice root ball for transplant, a jiffy cube tends to shoot the roots out the side due to its lamination from compression, and rapidroopters/biostarters have a definite advantage over that. I've also seen 4" rock wool cubes cut with a bread knife to fit in the holes of the coli and can imagine they would give excellent root growth. Its as much a matter of personal preference and style as anything IMO..
peace:pipe: