vermicomposting idea

[c-ray]

what would happen if one were to take their bulk organic amendments (blood meal, bone meal, bat guano, kelp meal, alfalfa, soymeal, greensand, dolomite lime, etc.) and feed them to worms before using them on cannabis?
the idea is that the worms would break it all down nicely, and make it easier for the plants to absorb and digest
I am assuming that the worms could only handle smaller portions at a time, that the amendments would have to be mixed in with other food stuffs...

[Parabola]

sounds like you might get very nutrient-dense worm castings. What raw materials are traditionally used in making worm castings?

[Green Supreme]

Hey I have a warehouse, we could just fill it with worms. LOL. Peace GS

[spacegrass]

sounds like you might get very nutrient-dense worm castings. What raw materials are traditionally used in making worm castings?
the worms that produce the organic castings we buy (they are produced here in the Okanagan) are fed with peat moss.

sg

[Parabola]

thanks SG. I'm wondering what the difference is between making worm castings and vermicomposting?

[nuggdigger]

Vermicompost, also known as worm castings and vermicast, is very different from compost produced in compost piles by bacterial decay, and is much richer in many nutrients[citation needed]. Worm compost is usually too rich for use as a seed compost, but is useful as a top layer of soil or an addition to potting composts. Some types of pitted seeds are reportedly easier to germinate when placed in vermicompost for several months.

Vermicompost is beneficial for soil in three ways:

It improves the physical structure of the soil.
It improves the biological properties of the soil (enrichment of micro-organisms, addition of growth hormones such as auxins and gibberellic acid, and addition of enzymes, such as phosphates, cellulase, etc.).
It attracts deep-burrowing earthworms already present in the soil.
Vermicompost can be used to make compost tea, by mixing some vermicompost in water and steeping for a number of hours or days. The resulting liquid is used as a fertilizer.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermicompost"

[Parabola]

thanks nuggdigger! so worm castings are essentially the same as vermicompost and better than bacterially composted compost. It has been a while since I have had a compost heap but I remember a lot of insect life in the family compost heap back in the day (it was often my job to bring the compost bucket out and throw it on the pile).

Isn't bat guano already composted when you buy it? The stuff I have used was very clean smelling and earthy. I suppose fresh poop and whatever else ya got and a big ol pile of worms would be a gardeners best friend eh?

Where did you say that warehouse was again Green Supreme?

[Alchemist]

worms are my best workers on my farm, they don't complain much and turn out lots of great nutrients for the plants

Ive never vermicomposted before though and would love to try it when I have the space some day

if we could just train them to eat spider mites we would be set
PEACE

[otto]

Unless you live in a van or something you have the space.
I am in the process of setting up a vericompost bin, a 20 gal tupperware.
stick it in the corner of some room and yer good to go.

They can eat all kinds of stuff, they do need a proper setup though, they hate light, citrus peels, onion and garlic waste.

I wouldn't bother feeding them any organic ammendments, but that's just my opinion, why not just keep your ferts for your plants, save yourself the hassle, the whole point is to take ordinary waste and turn it into available nutes and soil conditioners.

you can make tea from your castings, or just use the castings in yer soil mix, or topsoil, whatever floats yer boat.

If I had bags of guanos, greensand, kelp, blood/bone, lime and all that, instead of feeding them to your worms, feed them kitchen waste and then add their castings to your mix of ferts, most food scraps are high in nutrients anyway, the worms break it down and make it available, your nutes are already available.

Although, I bet they would love greensand considering they are like birds in the sense that they need grits to digest because they don't have teeth.

just my 2 cents, I aint no worm pro, just some common sense.

[Parabola]

Vermicomposting is a Girl's Best Friend

from http://www.yougrowgirl.com/garden/vermicomposting.php

Yes! A worm can be your friend, especially when it consumes your vegetable waste and turns it into yummy rich soil. Never mind that this wonderful black earth is actually worm poo, it can enrich your plants' lives immeasurably, and keep them happy, not to mention your garden, too. Wouldn't you like to witness the dazzling miracles of nature in your own cabinet, and reduce the amount of stuff in your garbage can? Well, you will soon learn that it is simple and fun.

First, you gotta get the worms. Not just any worm will do. The red wriggler is the little worker you need. These worms are specially sold for the purpose of vermicomposting. ('vermi' is worm in Latin, hence 'vermicelli' and vermicomposting.) Check out local environmental groups, maybe your campus Public Interest Research Group (PIRG or GRIP if you live in Quebec like me), or follow the links below to find out who can supply you with these beauties. They are extremely cheap, and people with their own vermicomposters will often just give you a whole bag full, because, as you could've guessed, these worms multiply.

Next, you'll need to provide your little wigglers with a comfy work/live studio. A large container of some sort that's not made of metal will suit them fine. Big Rubbermaid brand containers work well, especially because there needs to be holes in the lid of every worm's home. Think width, not depth when looking for your container. Worms prefer to spread out a bit while they dine. Give them some room to move. Punch or drill some holes (in a Rubbermaid container that's about one by two feet, punch about 12 holes) in the lid only.

Finally, you'll need to furnish your worm palace. Rip up a bunch of newspaper into very fine strips, enough to cover the bottom of the container with an inch of paper, and sprinkle water on it to wet it, but not soak it. Too much water drowns worms: remember this to avoid disgusting mishaps, trust me. This paper will be the first stuff the worms eat.

Now the wrigglers can move into their new digs. Let them loose along with some regular dirt, or maybe the earth they came in. Put their lid on and put the worms in a cool, dry, and DARK place (they want to feel like they're underground), for a day or two before feeding them.

Worms have refined palates. When you feed your worms, you must know what to give them, how much, and where. First of all, they can tolerate mushy and semi-mushy stuff like pear cores and carrot tops just fine, so long as they're cut up into small pieces. (The size of their food is very very important.) Also, they can eat eggshells, but not an overwhelming amount, provided they are finely crushed. Worms don't like to dine on banana peels, beans, tofu, or anything that's bitter. They will munch coffee grounds, as long as they are pretty dry, but not every day: they'll get a major buzz-on and not be able to function.

Okay, now for the how much, which ties-in with the where. Depending on how many worms you've got and how healthy and active they are, you can feed them about a third or a half of the vegetable waste one normal-sized vegetarian human who eats at home once a day can produce. That's about how much a batch of worms in a Rubbermaid-sized container will like to eat. Play it by ear - (actually, you can hear worms chowing down when you bend down low) - start by putting about a cup or so of chopped up compost in one corner of the bin, not spread all over. The worms will go to it and eat. A few days later, put some more food in the adjacent corner, and see if they are ready to go there. By the time you put some compost into the fourth corner, the food from the first corner should be pretty much gone, assimilated into dirt by the worms. Keep up with the rotation so as not to clog the worms' path, or confuse them. Also, it is necessary to bury the food, so that they will eat it (they hate light), and so that air doesn't get to it and cause it to smell bad. So long as you bury your food, you will have no trouble with fruit flies or composty smells.

Back to the birds-and-bees part: in time, your worms will multiply. There is no avoiding this, because sex is as natural to a worm as is turning apples into dirt. Take a close look. You may notice worm eggs in your vermicomposter. They are small and white, and look like nothing you've stuck into the bin. You could pluck these out and flush them if you're not completely horrified by such behaviour, or you could just let em hatch. You might have to expand production to a second container, or give some of your worms away. These worms like a warm climate. They won't survive the winter outside. Putting them into your garden is not a good idea.

Before too long, it'll be time for the harvest. To do this, you'll need to separate the worms from the little black fruits of their labour. Don't be squeamish. Mound the soil into cones, up toward the light your worms avoid. Skim the surface dirt from the cones until there's nothing left but a few dirty worms wriggling around. When you use the rich black yummy earth or worm castings you've got in your worm-bin, be sure not to use too much. Don't pot your plants in this alone. Instead, treat your plants to a couple of scoops placed on top of the potting soil. When you water, all the minerals and vitamins and such will trickle down through the plant's roots. In your garden, the same principle applies. This dirt also makes a great gift, whether to people you know, or to the flowerbeds in your town. There are always creative ways to use dirt!

This is by no means an exhaustive discussion of vermicomposting. Since you're already on the web, I encourage you to do more research, and I hope you have fun with your worms.

[c-ray]

ghetto tek worm composting bins:
http://www.instructables.com/id/EHII4ZKZN5EPH67CKF/?ALLSTEPS

[dpn]

i was wondering this too, about making super rich castings that would be very available to the plants... it would be great just adding a tablespoon of super poo to a gallon of water and the plants being very happy.

so do worms get burnt like plants do when too much fert is applied?
could they munch through say (moistened) pure kelp meal, bat guano, chicken pellets, alfalfa pellets etc?


my next investment will be a worm farm, if no one has an answer to the above question i shall do the experiment myself and report back..

[jamaicamon]

just bury little piles of what you want to try in shedded paper and see if they eat it. they like more of the raw veggy type food than anything too "ferty" as a general rule. I've seen pre-manufactured vermi-farms that were specifically for pet shit though.

[gojo]

hey

you can use those ingredients without issue. But you should add some carrot pulp [from juicer] (or other source of fiber), crushed egg shell (helps balance ph), fresh kitchen vegetable waste, newspaper, etc. I would also suggest adding some bokashi as this has been shown to increase the quality of castings...read about it from Japan and guy who sells bokashi and EM in US.

-stay away from acidic foods like oranges, etc and don't add fresh manure and don't use horse manure.

-you'll want to use red worms (aka "compost worms")...they can eat up to 1/2 their weight a day and double population every couple of months.

-to optimize worm habitat keep the ph around 7ish and keep temp around 75 degrees

-immature worms are not very productive at all, so when ordering try to order "mature" worms. identify mature worms by a distinct ring shaped swelling around their body. it takes about 3 months for immature worms to develop into mature worms.

-worms are inexpensive so order a lot...I'm ordering about 4000 (4lbs) red worms...yummm! A pound or two per tray is a good place to start.

-if you start tray with 1 pound of mature worms they will consume up to half a pound of food waste per day!

"Worm Fattener"
The fatter the worms are the more they will eat so you will want to give your worms a natural "steroid". Sprinkle the following mixture onto the food waste they are eating about once a week:
(you can get all of these ingredients in organic form and from a agricultural farm/feed store)
----
chicken layers pellets (chicken feed)
50%
wheat or corn flour
10%
powdered organic whole milk (goat or cow)
10%
bran or wheat meal (I am going to use bokashi here)
20%
agricultural lime or dolomite
10%
---------

Worms naturally want live to live in top 6" of soil and will attempt to move into it...so when building a worm bin it's best to make it multi-level as this will make your life easier and increase productivity. when the worms eat the organic matter in the first tray you add the next try ontop of the first. The fist tray has holes in top and second tray has holes in bottom...this allows worms to move from bottom tray to top and start eating new food. Then you just remove the first tray and you have worm-free castings ready to go!

it's hard to build a good, high producing worm bin. Iv'e been farming worms since I've been a kid (for boy scouts) and I've tried a lot of methods and home aid trays. IMVHO you should just buy a few "can-o-worms"...I got 2 of them a while back. They are about 2' in circumference and approximately 29" tall x 20" wide. It has 3 stackable trays and it's good to start with 2 pounds of worms in first tray. These are the Cadillac of indoor small-scale vermiposting. I am very impress with them, they are very nice and high quality construction. all trays fit perfectly and the drain valve is well designed...best thing is they are cheap! 130.00 dollars new

you can get them all over the place and I assume in Canada also...here's a quick link I found:
http://www.abundantearth.com/store/canoworms.html

[gojo]

so do worms get burnt like plants do when too much fert is applied?

yes and no. they will try to avoid this area and eat around it. if they can not avoid it they will not move into it...but they can be injured this way and a variety of other ways (water, air, light, food, etc). I would suggest that you try adding different amounts of guanos to test what strengths they will tolerate/eat.


could they munch through say (moistened) pure kelp meal, bat guano, chicken pellets, alfalfa pellets etc?

-kelp meal, bat guano, alfalfa: yes. You can lightly moisten it but the other vegetable waste should provide all the moisture that is needed.. it's best to moisten crusty/hard items like pizza crust, cardboard, etc...how about adding fresh kelp from an Asian supermarket? That's what I plan to do. You should rinse it throughly and run it through a Cuisinart (food processor)

-chicken pellets: do you mean chicken feed? If so then yes. see my post above for "worm fattener", it contains chicken layers pellets (feed)

-I would also add the "worm fattener" from my previous post.


my next investment will be a worm farm, if no one has an answer to the above question i shall do the experiment myself and report back..
well, even though I gave you the answers Id love to see the results of your tests, etc. :D I would suggest you purchase a "can-o-worms", there the best and not too expensive.

[gojo]

what would happen if one were to take their bulk organic amendments (blood meal, bone meal, bat guano, kelp meal, alfalfa, soymeal, greensand, dolomite lime, etc.) and feed them to worms before using them on cannabis?

I would not use blood or bone meal, I'm not sure how the worms will react (not good I think)...but itd be interesting to see a test ;). Other ingredients are ok but need other organic matter too.

well, castings are ph stable at 7ish and they will not burn. worm castings are simply worm crap from they food you give them and the castings are fully broken down manure. The worms can't handle too strong of food source so you'd have to go light on the guanos. I doubt the castings could be used as a stand-alone fert as they would not be strong enough NPK wise...but really nice amendment. and a great foliar feed! ...just my 2 cents

[dpn]

wow... many thanks for writing that so thoroughly... that can-o-worms is the same one i was planning to get and soon, its a little bit more expensive than what you would pay in canada but you get some nice freebies with it.

Can i ask why no horse poo? i have a pile of horse poop in my crappy diy composter (actually its mainly horse, some cow, comfrey, nettles, canna leaves) and its attarcted some juicy worms.
(ps my horse poo wasn't fresh it had been weathered, no ammonia smell, when i collect weathered cow poo theres always a few worms having a munch on the pie :)

I meant chicken pellets as in compressed chicken poop, are these too hot in nitrogen? what are the chicken feed pellets made from?

thanks again :)

[dpn]

im thinking if you did want to add say chicken poo pellets and bat guano and you werent sure if they could handle the concentration it definately would be best to blend it into a puree of fruit or veg or both and if they can take it slowly increase the amount of the fert.

i forgot to ask what are worms favourite foods? carrot puree, ...

do you still think it wouldnt be possible to make a worm cast so potent it could be used as a base fert?

[dpn]

Worms favourite foods (taken from a gardening forum)

It is my solemn duty to tell ya'll what worms like most of all...however unprepared you may be for it. Horse manure, horse manure, horse manure. The fresher the better. As un-appealing as it may seem, "indoor" bins deal with it just fine. With proper bedding and feeding techniques, aroma is a mute question.
Put your cantaloupe, lettuce (whatever) on one side and horse you know what on the other, and the other will have the worms.

I do, however, segregate some indoor bins because of the reactions of lots of, well, most people...the main one being my wife.

Bon appetite,

[dpn]

i found this too, interesting

What are worms favorite food

A worms favourite food is actually protozoa, which are, largely, predators of bacteria. Following protozoa they like microscopic fungi and algae, and they enjoy a few bacteria on the side.
What? You thought they were getting their nutrients from the veggie peels and melon rinds? Well, you're not alone in that belief, but nope, that's not actually correct.

Worms ingest organic materials once they have become biologically active, meaning once they have begun to rot. Microscopic decomposers begin to soften and fragment organic materials so they can be drawn into the tiny worm mouth. The tiny OM fragments, which are covered with millions of these microscopic decomposers pass into the worm digestive system where it is the microorganisms that are selected by the worm gut processes as the source of nutrient. So, the worms INGEST the OM, but it is the microbes decaying that OM that become the major source of nutrient.

Why then do worms show a definite preference for succulent, sugary fruits and veggies over say corn cobs? Because succulent sugary veggies support orders of greater magnitude communities of microbes than do corn cobs, and because they are more readily fragmented and softened, thus easier to ingest with their load of microbes treats.

So, in terms of OM, what materials tend to support the massive biological blooms that maximize worm activity with the least amount of management on the part of the human operating the system? That tends to be sugary fruits and succulent veggie scraps. Livestock manure is also an excellent and natural choice. Keep in mind, however, that anything that is biologically active is a source of nutrition for worms.

Make sense?

[gojo]

Worms favourite foods (taken from a gardening forum)

It is my solemn duty to tell ya'll what worms like most of all...however unprepared you may be for it. Horse manure, horse manure, horse manure

The reason I say don't use horse manure is most people don't know what the horses where fed. Manures, for example from horses, cattle or dogs often has vermicides still active in it that were designed to kill parasitic worms in the animal. These vermicides can kill all your worms in less than a day...so if you know the manure is safe than your right...it great food...but if your not sure of it's source I'd be wary of it.

:D

[gojo]

Protozoa:

orignaiillay quoted by c-ray:
I have found the easiest way to grow protozoa is to use hay or straw. Simply put hay in water and leave it for about 48 hours. You can aerate but the aeration must be very gentle. Protozoa usually multiply in 24 hours so the numbers you get will be proportionally smaller than bacteria. What I do is keep protozoa growing all the time and add it to the tea or one of my BioAmend products just before I apply. Protozoa eat bacteria and fungi so adding them to a bacteria laden tea is like giving fatted calves to a pack of wolves. I did an experiment where I brewed a bunch of bacteria then added some protozoa and in 24 hours, the protozoa had virtually decimated the bacteria in samples I took.

Ted Peterson
Earth-Wise, LLC

might be good to toss in some of the "breeding" hay which should have lots of protozoa for the worms.

Good info dpn,thanks!

[dpn]

The reason I say don't use horse manure is most people don't know what the horses where fed. Manures, for example from horses, cattle or dogs often has vermicides still active in it that were designed to kill parasitic worms in the animal. These vermicides can kill all your worms in less than a day...so if you know the manure is safe than your right...it great food...but if your not sure of it's source I'd be wary of it.

:D

yes, i was reading if you want to feed your worms horse/cow poo its best to select the turds with worms in them so you know there safe.

[The Cannarchist]

Nice to see you guys loving your shit....

[gojo]

yeah!~ :D

I'm getting in about 10 thousand composting worms this week :D :D . a few thousand for each "can-o-worms"! I'm really looking forward to this, the local AG stores are ready to buy the castings and tea i'll make...not to mention they also want to buy the bokashi compost too ;) .

maybe i'll do a picture "follow-along" thread when I setup the worms and the bins next week...

[caddis]

gojo, gojo gojo ! You go jo....you must have some cool ag stores. Good luck, and am looking forward to the worm bin opener.

taker easy

[dpn]

i recieved my can-0-worms the other day with 500 + worms and i added probably about 200 + from the compost pile of hungry worms... ive noticed the horse and cow manure is starting to look more black and greasy as the worms munch there way through it and break it down. I did a very dumb thing and the first day i set up the wormery and added the worms i left the lid off :( imagine picking up 250 + worms off the garage floor and my garage is a cluttered mess which made it even more fun picking them up... i dont think i lost too many though lol

[gojo]

gojo, gojo gojo ! You go jo....you must have some cool ag stores. Good luck, and am looking forward to the worm bin opener.

taker easy

Thanks. and yea, i've got some cool ag stores, they are beggin for good local, fresh, worm castings! :D

I just went to wallyword (I know i suck!) and bought enough plastic containers to build 3 worm bins with 3 levels each!...just like the "Can-O-Worms". The bins im building are so easy to make and will work just as well as the can-o-worms; my bins hold the same volume as the can-o-worms. The idea behind the can-o-worms is simple as can be!

One "Can-O-Worms" costs about $100.00 (S+H, tax, etc)...I am building 3 "Gojo-Worm-Palace" for a grand total of $50.00 (including power drill). So I'm saving about $250 :cool: When I get the worms I'll do a "Can-O-Worms" thread and a seperate thread on how-to make a "Gojo-Worm-Palace" ;) .

[crazy cooter]

Good for you guys. I started a bin last August in an 18-gallon Rubbermaid bin. That bin is now about 4/5 of the way full of rich, wonderful earthworm castings.

The material in the bin wiggles and squirms with every manner of creepy crawler imaginable. There is no better way to make more biologically active matter for your soil.

Worm on!

[gojo]

nice! vermiculture is fun and ecologically sound

It's amazing how much better quality homeaid, fresh worm castings are, especially in regards to microbes and such...so much life!

That's one thing I've learned over the years, castings are "alive". I used to compost with worms when I was a kid and used to bag them up after they were dry enough but i didn't use air holes. An old timer told me how i was hurting the castings by depriving it and it's inhabitance of oxygen. After started leaving holes in the bags i noticed improved casting texture and smell over time.

:D

[c-ray]

this is my first worm bin, just got some jumbo red worms and so I built this yesterday, hopefully it works some are trying to escape
I added some holes to the side after the pics were taken
and the 3rd pic is some leftovers from making bubble hash blended up...bedding is a mix of used coir and peat with some perlite

[gojo]

hey bud, nice worm bins...ala "C-ray's Palace O' Worms" :aok:

A few notes:

1. Is each "tray" filled with bedding and worms?

If so then you'll want to empty out all of the bins except for the bottom bin. If the other bins already have worms then you could start 3 bins, each full bin could be a new base bin. The reason is worms want to be in the top 2-3" of soil. They will climb from the bottom tray to the top tray, passing all the food stuffs to get the to top 3" of soil...that's where they will feed.

You want to fill the bottom tray and cover it,let them eat all that food. When there done with that tray cover it with a 1-2" layer of shredded and moistened newspaper and put the second tray full of food on top of the newspaper. The worms will work there way into the new container and after about 2 weeks you can remove the bottom tray and harvest the nearly worm free castings. When the second tray is done you add anther tray and repeat the process.

2. you'll want to keep them in the dark or they'll try to escape. If there's too much light getting though try to seal it up.

3. did you add shredded and moistened newspaper to your bedding? If not you should probably replace like 30-40% by volume of shredded and moistened newspaper.

An ideal bed is like this:
1" bottom layer of moistened and shredded newspaper
2-3" middle layer of food stuffs (run thu food processor)
2" top layer of shredded un-moistened newspaper
cover over it all


P.S.
I've read that it's very benifical to add myco fungi, bokashi and boakshi compost (picked stage) to the worm feed. They rely on the myco fungi, bacteria, microorganisms, enzymes, etc to break down of food.

later :D

[gojo]

works some are trying to escape
I added some holes to the side after the pics were taken

Yea, they'll try to escape out of those holes on the sides, you should tape um' up. the only holes should be in the lid for fresh air and in the bottom for drainage and so the worms can crawl up into new trays.

[crazy cooter]

My bin (same Rubbermaid bins, by the way, c) has holes only on the sides and the worms stay put.

The worms can climb the sides of the bins, by the way. Once I let my bedding get a bit anaerobic/too wet, and a few worms were not liking it... they crawled up on the sides of the bin, to the small "ledges" and hung out there, munching on whatever grime they could find.

Keep us posted, c-ray.

[c-ray]

ok I acquired some more worms and started another bin with newspaper and blended rotting veggies from the outside compost bin and it seems to be too wet as the worms are escaping, I wasn't sure why they were escaping until you mentioned that cooter, thanks
they are leaving fresh castings on the side of the bin too
I guess I will add some shredded cardboard (what I have right now)

also I added more food to the first bins and the worms are staying put now
I moved the bins to a warmer room too
maybe the first bins are a little moist too we'll see

[dpn]

i think worms will try and escape/test there surroundings when put in a new environment... if i think something is too wet do the squeeze test (taken from shroomery, to test proper moisture content for good fungus mycelium formation)

Do SQEEEZE TEST (by hand). You want to be able to pick up handfull, THAT DOESNT DRIP, but does drip a few drops - when you give it a GENTLE SQUEEZE.

[c-ray]

they are ok now
I added a little shredded cardboard mostly on top
I also added some coffee grounds (fresh) and a couple handfuls of alfalfa pellets

[gojo]

hey all,

I just got back from my worm lady and I had a long talk with her about all this stuff.

anytime worms are escaping it generally means there is something wrong in the bin. Most of the time it's too wet (as cooter pointed out and c-ray experienced) and then the bin becomes anaerobic. Also, sometimes it's too hot in terms of heat from decomposition (composting). If for example someone added too large of a sugary food stuff (like carrot, melon, etc) it will start to decompose and create heat which the worms can't stand. The ratios of worm "food" is important, it should be like 25-30% moisture with a good balance of food sources (fiber, suger, etc).

The worm leachate (the liquid that drains from the bins) can be captured in a cup filled with shredded newspaper. Then take the shredded newspaper and put it back in the worm bin. The leachate is full of amino acids, enzymes, microorganisms, hormones, etc.

I added a little shredded cardboard mostly on top

Yea thats a really good idea. But dry, shredded newspaper is supposed to be better because the worms/microorganisms can break newspaper down much easier than cardboard. You should keep like a 1-2" layer of shredded newspaper on top at all times. This blocks any light from the worms and it keeps a good level of surface moisture. When you add the dry, shredded newspaper it will become moist after a day or two and after about a week or two you'll want to add another layer of dry, shredded newspaper.

It's also a good idea to put down a bottom layer of moisted, shredded newspaper in your worm bin. This allows proper drainage of worm leachate. Then put the starter worm castings/worms and food stuffs on top and cover all of that with a 1-2" layer of dry, shredded newspaper.
(NOTE: When first starting a new worm bin and adding new worms use moistened, shredded newspaper for the top layer. After that add dry, shredded newspaper)

Oh ya, I also posted wrong info in a previous post. I said to add shredded newspaper directly to and mixed within the worms food stuff's...that's not correct. The newspaper should only be added on the bottom (when 1st setting up the worm bin) and the top.

I also added some coffee grounds (fresh) and a couple handfuls of alfalfa pellets

coffee grounds are great and dried, ground up egg shells are too! :D But be careful with adding grains. I asked her specifically about grains (cuz' I'm gonna add bokashi) and she said worms don't digest them too fast and often times it will start to decompose and heat up the worm bin. Even worse the grain can cause mold, fungi and it can putrefy. A handful or two so every few weeks should be fine. The big problem comes from adding too much and the grain works it way to the middle/bottom of the worm compost.

PS.
I talked to the SCD people and all they feed there worms to produce there worm castings is straight boakshi compost in the picked stage. This makes perfect sense as the worms and other microorganisms can easily digest the pickled bokashi compost. Feeding worms the picked compost speeds up the turn-around time by a month or more becuase the worms can eat the picked compost so fast.

The same can be said for BSF castings which is really more of a liquid sludge than castings. When worms are feed BSF castings they can digest it much faster because it's already pre-broken down for them. BSF larvae can eat through a few pounds of food stuffs in a few days. The BSF leachate is full of amino acids, enzymes, microorganisms, hormones, nutrients, etc.

Im gonna feed my worms a Gojo cocktail:
1 part picked boakshi compost, a floater of BSF compost liquid and a garnish of shredded newspaper! yummm :D

[gojo]

holy *hit!

I think I found my worms favorite dinner of "regular" food stuffs! (eg. non-bokashi compost). I added about a two pounds of food mix 4 days ago and I can barely recognize the food now...they almost completely decimated it. In my experience worms are not fast eaters/decomposers so i'm really stoked about how FAST they at this food. :headbang:

The speed at which they are eating this food is coming close what BSF larvae can do in terms of speed! But, the worms completely break food down into stable material, unlike BSF larvae. Maybe there eating so fast cuz' I've got 2000-3000 in each bin...

I added the food to half the bin so I could see how many of them moved from the non-food side to the food side. They have all moved to the food side with the exception of a few stragglers. This is a really good indicator if they will like the food. Whenever I add new types of food I haven't tried before I only add it to half of the bin...if they like the food they'll move into it, if they don't like it they move away from it. :pipe:


Food 4 Worms:
60% fresh horse manure
40% aged carrot pulp from my juicer
two cups dried and ground egg shell
two medium sized handfuls of boashi (fresher is better for bokashi)
one medium sized handful of ground alfalfa meal

Horse crap:
It must be fresh and free from chemical sprays. I got mine right out of the stall from a local horse place...as much free crap as I can scoop! Then I put it in a food processor to break it up and make it more edible for the worms. Do not use cow manure as the worms don't like it as much, cows eat much more grass than horses.

Carrot pulp:
I collect the organic carrot pulp from my juicer and put it into a bag which I put into the fridge for a few days. This gives the carrot pulp time to start breaking down naturally due to it's inherent sugars and the low temp from the fridge slows the process to prevent molds, etc.

Egg shell:
I just keep the shells from the eggs I eat (about 5 a day) and dry them for about a week. Then I put them in the food processor to break them up. Next time I'm going to put the broken up eggs shells into my big mortar and pestle to ground them into a fine powder. Egg shells help balance PH, gives the food structure along with helping the worms digest; similar in fashion to how some birds will eat gravel to help them digest.

bokashi:
It will get into the worms stomach and the EM will help them digest. The worms will also crap out a much more microoganism rich casting if you feed them EM via. bokashi. Also, the EM will start pickling the carrots and horse crap which makes it more digestible for the worms.

Alfalfa meal:
This isn't necessary but I think it's a good idea.


Warnings
-If your carrot pulp is real wet then reduce it's amount, if you have wet food stuffs it can cause various troubles in your bin and could even kill your worms.

-Try to get horse crap from the stalls as it will be dry and less likely to be sprayed with anything that will hurt the worms...ask the stable manager/hand to be sure that the crap hasn't been sprayed.

-Do not add too much bokashi or alfalfa, you could even leave out the alfalfa all together. The problem is that grains can cause mold in the bin and really hurt your worms. when adding the bokashi and alfalfa mix them into top of the food stuffs, not the bottom and not throughout the food stuffs.

dinner time! :yay:

[Albi]

:respect:

thank you for showing the way gojo!!!

[gojo]

no problem :D I'm learning a lot as I go too...in no small part due to this site!!!

Funny thing I noticed today was orange worm castings! It's pretty funny, they are so orange from the carrots.

[islandgrow]

Hey Gojo, ya its not surprising that they ate it so quickly a worm can eat its body weight in a day in the right conditions.

Im wondering if you and maybe Cray could show some more pics of how your worm bins work? I don't understand the whole stacking thing.

Thanks, cool stuff I'm super interested in Vermicomposting as well.

[gojo]

Hey Gojo, ya its not surprising that they ate it so quickly a worm can eat its body weight in a day in the right conditions.

True, but getting the right conditions is the hard part. Worms usually don't eat as fast as what I've seen with the food I posted. The biggest reason worms are considered rather slow eaters/composters is because they normally take a few weeks to eat through food mostly because it's the wrong type of food or it's not reduced in size enough or the microorganisms haven't broken down the food enough (which is why I add bokashi).


Im wondering if you and maybe Cray could show some more pics of how your worm bins work? I don't understand the whole stacking thing.

Thanks, cool stuff I'm super interested in Vermicomposting as well.


Sure, I actually took a bunch of pics when I set one of my bins up last week. I just have to find time to post it...this weekend most likely.

:D

[dpn]

did everyone get a bag of worm treat with the can-o-worms? is it based around the same recipe as the one mentioned on this thread?

[gojo]

did everyone get a bag of worm treat with the can-o-worms?

No. My can-o-worms came with a block of coir though...which I threw away as shredded newspaper is a better bedding.

is it based around the same recipe as the one mentioned on this thread?

Which recipe are you referring to?

:D

[dpn]

chicken layers pellets (chicken feed)
50%
wheat or corn flour
10%
powdered organic whole milk (goat or cow)
10%
bran or wheat meal (I am going to use bokashi here)
20%
agricultural lime or dolomite
10%
---------

this one, did you make this recipe yourself or is this taken from else where?

[c-ray]

a quick update...the bin that I made with newspaper and cardboard, well the worms all died...maybe it got too warm which I am not sure because I was checking it and it seemed ok
meanwhile the first bins I made, the pics above, well the worms are all thriving..they seem to like the peat and coir with little bits of newspaper and cardboard

[islandgrow]

Well good that some are thriving.

Whats the purpose of stacking cray? I understand the whole method but some of the bins I have a hard time grasping.

Vermicomposting really interesting stuff, save you a fair bit of money while producing top quality worm castings.

[gojo]

this one, did you make this recipe yourself or is this taken from else where?

That is a 'worm fattener" that was described in the *sparse* literature that came with my can-o-worms. I asked my worm lady about it and she said don't do it...in theory they will get fatter and as a consequence they will eat more (per body weight) and then get fatter, and on and on. But, fat worms don't breed as much and in her opinion (which I agree with) is that it's better to have more mouths then bigger mouths. I decided not to include it after talking to her...

Most "composting" red worms will lay 3-5 eggs a week and the the "blue worms" worm will lay 15-20 eggs a week. The red worms are bigger but the blue worms outbreed them like crazy. There are also tiger worms but I don't know a whole lot about them. My bins have red, blue and tiger worms; I have more reds and blue is second with a few hundred tigers. I was lucky as my worm lady keeps all three and I get a good mix when I get worms from her.

http://www.thewormman.com/faq.htm

There is nothing wrong with any breed of worm but all breeds differ in breeding and eating patterns, For example, Tiger worms do not breed as prolifically as the Reds, and the Tigers also like colder conditions and prefer not spend as much time in the very top surface area.

The Blue worm is a very hot tropical worm that breeds very prolifically but it also has a shorter life span. It is very hard to breed in consistent volumes all year long because of its breeding patterns and consequently it’s numbers tend to fluctuates greatly.

The most consistent and valuable worm that you will ever use is the red composting worm

[gojo]

@ islandgrow

The purpose of stacking is to take advantage of the worms natural desire to be in the top 3" of the soil...this is very useful when harvesting castings in a hobbyist environment. All stacked trays work under the same assumptions and laws of wormories ;)

Stacking:

-All 3 worm bin trays have 1/16-1/4 inch holes drilled into the bottom. You need plenty of holes, this is how the worms move upward.

-1st level is a "collection tray" where worm "leachate", dead worms, files, castings, etc, collects. This level is not used for anything but collecting the leachate so it doesn't fertilize your floor! :yowza: The leachate can be collect and spread back onto the worm bin.

-2nd level is the "bottom tray" when you first start using the worm bin. This tray is where you add the worm bedding (shredded and mositened newspaper), worms and starter castings/bedding and food when starting your bin.

-3rd level is the "middle tray" and when you first start your bin it is empty and sits on top of the bottom tray.

-4th level is the "top tray" and when you first start your bin it is empty and sits on top of the middle tray.

-A lid is on top of the top tray.

Worm farming :pipe:

-When the bottom tray has been filled with castings and there is very little food left remove the last of the food from the bottom tray. Add food to the middle try and put the middle tray on top of the bottom tray. Make sure that the castings in the bottom tray is making contact with the bottom of the middle tray.

-After a few days the worms will begin to move into the middle tray to eat the food, they follow there nose and want to be in the top 3" of soil.

-Continue feeding the middle bin until it's filled with castings and there is very little food left remove the last of the food from the middle tray. Add food to the top tray and put the top tray on top of the middle tray. Make sure that the castings in the middle tray is making contact with bottom of the top tray.

-After a few days the worms will begin to move into the top tray to eat the food, they follow there nose and want to be in the top 3" of soil.

-At this point the bottom tray should be nearly empty of worms and is ready to be harvest! :yay: Remove the bottom tray and put the castings into a container with air holes and keep it in a cool, dark place. Castings are living organic matter and the aerobic microorganisms need the oxygen to live.

-Now the bottom tray becomes the top tray, the middle tray becomes the bottom tray and the top tray becomes the middle tray...and the cycle repeats.

Does that explain it for you?


Vermicomposting really interesting stuff, save you a fair bit of money while producing top quality worm castings.

Yup. IMVHO, the biggest bonus is that your castings will be alive and thriving. 99.99% of all store bought castings, composts, teas, etc are not "alive" because they rely on aerobic microorganisms...I've never seen a bag of castigs with air holes ;) . Also, it takes a while to make enough castings for a big grow when it's used as an amendment. I really like brewing aerated tea with these castings, along with molassis and humic acid...that's all my seedlings get for the first 2-3 weeks.

[gojo]

a quick update...the bin that I made with newspaper and cardboard, well the worms all died...maybe it got too warm which I am not sure because I was checking it and it seemed ok

How was the moisture content in the bedding and humidity in the tray? Any fungus or bad smells in the bin? How is your tray's bedding/food comprised? Are you mixing the paper, coir, peat, etc into the food stuffs? How deep is the tray including food stuffs, bedding and topping?

meanwhile the first bins I made, the pics above, well the worms are all thriving..they seem to like the peat and coir with little bits of newspaper and cardboard

nice :D I'm looking forward to adding few handfulls of worms per outdoor grow bag when I plant the seedlings...I've grown plants with and without worms in the media side by side and the worms with seemed to be more healthy and happy.

[c-ray]

How was the moisture content in the bedding and humidity in the tray?

it was intially too moist, but I added some shredded cardboard until it seemed acceptable to the worms...they stopped trying to escape and went into the mix


Any fungus or bad smells in the bin?

smelled like sweet rotting fruit, not too foul smelling
I noticed some white mold growing on top today


How is your tray's bedding/food comprised?

in layers as you suggested above


Are you mixing the paper, coir, peat, etc into the food stuffs?

yes a bit


How deep is the tray including food stuffs, bedding and topping?

maybe 5-6 inches...when I found the worms were dead there were none trying to escape but they looked stringy

[dpn]

..when I found the worms were dead there were none trying to escape but they looked stringy

thats strange, maybe it was something in the ink? ive always been hesitant with the idea of feeding worms (and then the plants) with all the crap printed onto the paper... is it still lead ink used?

[c-ray]

actually I smelled my hands a little later and there was a bit of a bad rotting compost smell
I don't know what's up with that

the reason I started 3 bins is I thought that if I split my worms into 3 groups they might expand into the space and propagate faster, not basing this on anything concrete just a thought and an experiment...took a peek at them today and they are happily kicking ass

I want to move them outdoors in a month or so into a big pile of partially composted hay mixed with lots of kitchen scraps from the winter where they can have lots of fun this summer

[islandgrow]

Hey Gojo thanks! Your the worm king!

I got a book on Vermicomposting which is fairly interesting but really basic stuff.

I'm thinking I'm just going to make a long box or get a long bin and fill it and then ill just adjust where I put the food and use light to get the worms from one side to the other so I can harvest the castings. (was a process that is in the book and a fairly common one I think?) The whole level method is interesting but I like to keep it basic.

[gojo]

I'm thinking I'm just going to make a long box or get a long bin and fill it and then ill just adjust where I put the food and use light to get the worms from one side to the other so I can harvest the castings. (was a process that is in the book and a fairly common one I think?) The whole level method is interesting but I like to keep it basic.


That's how the big worm farms do it! Stacking is impractical for large operations. Remember to only add new food as they finish the old food, many people error by adding too much too fast...you shouldn't have more than 2-3 inches of food stuffs on top at any given point.

:D

[islandgrow]

sounds good, ya I found plans online for a worm bed/box but I think I can with your guys help make/buy my own.

Thank Gojo!

[gojo]

Hey all,

Here a great vermicomposting forum, very, very good site (no cannabis talk there please ;) )..."The Worms Turn" (http://wormsturn.proboards54.com/index.cgi)


And here some good info on a "Pre-Digester" (http://wormsturn.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=gettingstarted&action=display&thread=134)


hi
I would use a pre-digestor. It shrinks your food waste. Therefore you are feeding more. plus it gets the bacteria going that the worms like. A garbage bag is fine or an old piece of rug soaked in water shaken out will also work

hi
I use 45 gal plastic drums. I just layer fruit and veg waste. Within 10 days a full barrel has heated and shrunk to less then half the barrel.
A couple of good things. One you have by passed the heat of the organic waste. two it has the bactera the worms like so they eat it faster. three you can process more food waste.


I use a different method for pre-digesting foodstuffs...

Two weeks ago I put carrot pulp (from my juicer) and leafy greens like romaine and arugula with sprouts into my home aide bokashi composter. The compost was good and pickled and covered in a nice thick mycelium so yesterday I added a bit to my worm bin. The compost was more like thick slude from the microorganisms breaking down the food. I used the bokashi very sparingly as its dangerous in the worm bins (the grain i mean)...but I used homemaid, freash and moist bokashi that I have been allowing to "sit" for the last month...freash bokashi is WAYY better than dried :D

This method is far superior to the one above as it retains more nutrients and adds WAYY more microorganism's (aerobic and anaerobic). I'll let you know if they flock to the compost in a day or two :farm: :D

later

[gojo]

Excellent!!!:farm: (we need a worm icon!)

I just checked the pickled compost and the worms are LOVING IT :yay:

It's been about a day or so and the 8oz of pickled compost I added has about 30 worms in it and a TON of those little brown bugs (which also pre-digest the food for worms). A great sign that the worms really liked the pickled compost is that they have rayed a crap load of eggs in the pickled compost, on a quick count I found about 10 or so.

I am really surprised how many worms were in the pickled compost and how many eggs they already layed in it. I put the pickled compost as far from the worms as I could in the test corner. (I keep one corner of my bin empty of food for testing new foodstufs). The worms had to crawl all the way to the pickled compost so they must really like it.

Another bonus of feeding with pickled bokashi compost is the foodstufs won't heat up the bin as they decompose like they would if they were fresh. Though the pickled compost is more of a thick sludge so the moisture content is something to be aware of...to much moister in a worm bin is bad.

:D

[c-ray]

makes sense!
so how many worms come out of each egg?

[gojo]

Hey bud!

one egg = 2-15 worms (depends upon species, age, foodstuffs, environmental factors like humid, temp, etc)

[gojo]

Hallo

checked on the wormies and I had to remove a bit of shredded newspaper laying on top of the food/castings...one bin was getting a little too moist because of the pickled carrot pulp and spinach. But the worms are LOVING the picked food, I can't get over how fast they can digest the picked food (eg. 'pre-digested' by the microOs)

Today I lightly sprinkled Biozome over the shredded newspaper in the bins...the added aerobic microorganisms will help the worms and they'll digest the microOs which will come out the in the other end as casting. These castings will be much higher in microorganism counts due to the picked food, bokashi and Biozome I am feeding them (aerobic & anaerobic). I also sprinkled some fresh bokashi on top too, not too much as the moist grain can cause molds in the bin.

In one bin the bottom tray is almost full of fresh castings and the the other bins are darn near the point too :D :D. I should be able to harvest about 5 gallons of fresh castings for the OD season...and I've got another 5 gallons on order from my worm lady.

:farm:

[gojo]

Hey,

emailing with someone who wants to remain anonymous. In general fungi are the hardest microorgamis to 'grow' in an ACT. Fungi reach their peak in about 12 hours of brewing. But worms have fungi and bacteria in their intestins (ex. PnSB bacteria in some worms ;) ) and they are also in the feash, viable castings. The idea is to brew with castings that already contain a high level of fungi and other microorganisms.


To add fungi I was told this:
I brewed an ACT heavily populated with fungal hyphae, utilizing our fungal inhabited vermicompost fed with oat flour.

Carefull, don't add too much!

I wonder how well the wheat bran boskahi I feed the worms helps with fungi and microorganisms in their castings? I read studies about feed them with bokashi and microorganisms within their castings have a good deal higher amount fungi/microorganisms. I also add biozome every few weeks and the worms seem to converge on the mosited newspaper with the biozome.

I'm trying some oat flower this week to see how much they like it...i think it'll have to mixed with some moist material like fermented carrot pulp. The worms feed on or at least digest microorgamisms I believe, I'll have to look that up.

later :up:

[purplehaze2]

hollyshit! thats a shit party for sure. time to too get some worm bends I have thousands of worms out in my yard.I live were there's a lot of clay,do they like the clay for some reason

[gojo]

PH2,

If you going to have worm beds I suggest you get the Can O' Worms. You don't want to use the worm in your yard, order composting worms like Reds, Idaho blues and Tigers...red are your best bet when starting out, they are the most forgiving.

re-read this thread too as it's got a lot of good info. again, as with organics, less food is more food...start with small amounts of farily dry foodstuffs.

I love looking at my bins, the whole surface is in constant motion from all the worms just below the surface...it's quite amazing actually to see the surface move the way it does...I've always wanted to be tripping face while looking at the constantly moving surface :loco:

...and no, most worms do not prefer clay.

[gojo]

actually I smelled my hands a little later and there was a bit of a bad rotting compost smell
I don't know what's up with that

Sounds like the food stuffs and vermicast may have actually started rotting from anaerobic conditions...how wet was the bin? A good guide is how much moisture is on bottom the bin lid, some moisture is normal but a lot is worrisome.