Running an electric generator indoors...stealthily.

[Hang10]

So it's fun to brainstorm and chat about hypothetical situations :)

Lets assume Buddies house is already maxed out electrically and he wants to supplement his power supply. At the rates the Super Markets are selling tomatoes and cucumbers for these days...he would love to supply them with more. But doesn't have any outdoor greenhouse land use. But a noisy and smelly generator wouldn't go over very well if it were just sitting in the yard wailing and smoking away.

So Buddy says the other day..."Why couldn't a guy run a 6 up to maybe 12KW generator in a room in the basement of a house in a typical single family dwelling neighborhood and the neighbors be none the wiser?"

So he thinks about it for a bit (and some quick internet searching) and so far has come up with this rough rundown of the scenario.

#1: Noise.
It seems at first glance that noise control is a huge deal in many facets of our world. It is repeatedly claimed that a generator can be run to be no louder than an AC unit if the proper sound barrier techniques are applied. If that is true, how could this possibly be heard from outside of the home?

#2: (maybe this should have been #1 actually) Personal safety.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. It kills, and it can kill faster than many think. It's no joke.
So...maybe build a 100% hard sealed room (not a tent or plastic wrapped room). You could use plywood, but 5/8-3/4" MDF board would seal as well as add to sound suppression. What would be adequate ventilation?...maybe 800cfm out and 400cfm in? Run 24/7, always a vacuum on the room.
It's main purpose would be to prevent a carbon monoxide buildup and provide enough engine cooling. The air exchange would be enough for the engines own intake/exhaust...but both the air intake and exhaust to the engine itself could be plumbed outdoors as well. The engine exhaust would of course have a muffler or two for sound suppression.

#3: Engine exhaust odor.
There must be a carbon product for this type of application?

#4: Fuel use and unit longevity.
While this comes up as a factor one would have to consider when deciding whether to use a generator or not...it has little to do with where the unit is being operated.

I open this to discussion:)

I found my Buddies suggestion interesting. Not only for it's boldness but also because I have never seen this particular application discussed. The last time I was online...OG and CW were doing just fine. Well, did I ever have a little catching up to do! :lol: So, I am a newbie here, but a long time reader on the www. :)

Hang10

[vapor]

"#4: Fuel use and unit longevity"

collect used veggy oil, filter it, and mix 50/50 with diesel fuel this would cut down on your fuel consumption, your gens seals may need to be changed etc

[vapor]

My friends run there mercedes like this ^^^^

http://www.diesel-therm.com/veggie-kit.htm

[c-ray]

much better for the engine to make (and use) biodiesel rather than svo (straight veggie oil), works to about half the price of diesel

Welcome Hang-10

[Lungus]

If you are in an area serviced by natural gas, a generator powered by NG might be an answer also.

[Hang10]

Welcome Hang-10

Thx c-ray:)

[Hang10]

Economically...diesel appears to be the winner for fuel choice. (engine longevity too). But are alternative fuels for that diesel feasible? Gathering and making various oils might be worthwhile for a private use vehicle. But a vehicles fuel consumption demands are nothing compared to a generator. A gen-set runs at 50-100% open throttle for 12-24hrs a day. The sheer volume of fuel needed for a gen-set might make an alternative diesel fuel too labour intensive???

Natural Gas. The first problem I see with them is the reduced output. NG engines have less power than LP/gas/diesel. So the NG unit wattage output is less, but costs the same as the LP unit to buy.
As for having the option to hook up a NG unit to the homes NG supply...well, you could. It would save the hassle of transporting fuel to the location. But here's the catch...all the NG units I've seen are designed as backup systems to a home and are NOT meant for continuous use. So if you just want a back up gen-set for your home, this would work great. But if you hooked up a gen-set that is running 12+ hrs a day...that bill would be huge. Do you think someone from the NG company would be by to make sure there wasn't a leak or something? I do. And if you didn't have a REALLY GOOD reason for the NG use...Red Flag I think.

[Parabola]

much better for the engine to make (and use) biodiesel rather than svo (straight veggie oil), works to about half the price of diesel



from the link vapor provided: Vegetable Oil
All biofuels (e.g. vegetable oils) are CO2-neutral and free of sulfur and pollutants in their pure, untreated state. This means they produce only a fraction of the harmful substances as compared to burning mineral diesel.

Additional advantages of vegetable oil

* inexpensive
* nontoxic
* biodegradable
* water reactivity 0
* flash point aprox. 300°C (reduces the risk of fire or accident)
* requires less energy to produce
* locally produced
* protection of limited fossil fuels

Biodiesel = Rapsmethylester = RME
Biodiesel is chemically produced and substantially more expensive than vegetable oil. Except for a few new vehicles, most are not suited for using biodiesel. The majority of diesel vehicles must first be converted in order to guarantee the operation on biodiesel. The problem is the durability of the plastic and rubber components, which come into contact with the fuel. If biodiesel is used in a system that has not been adapted, the fuel can leak from places where it frequently backs up, which weakens and dissolves the fuel system´s components. When using pure, untreated vegetable oil, these problems will not occur.

another cool link to check out:

http://theorganicmechanic.org/

[c-ray]

I guess there is still some debate on it

to convert a vehicle to biodiesel is as simple as changing the fuel line from rubber to synthetic hose, about 5 or 6 feet of fuel line

a vehicle converted to run on svo needs a special fuel tank with a heater

svo can gum up engines, depending on the source of the veggie oil

but I think this can be alleviated by mixing some methyl hydrate (aka methoxide) into the svo to break up the gunkier stuff, and letting mix for 24 hours

one of the best sources of used veggie oils is italian restaurants that use olive oil

here's a good biodiesel forum: http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums

[outdoordreams]

We ran a generator to finish plants off last season 05, seemed like the lights did not run at full strength and they seemed to flicker..............probably not the right type of power output? but im not sure of the problem........

Others have used big diesel generators with no problem but the small gas units may need more investigation?

A couple actually died last week when their generator poisoned them! Do be careful!

[Hang10]

Thx Odd...Do you happen to recall what make/mode/rating of gen-set was used and how much was actually plugged into it?
I don't know enough about it either to say if any power supply problem should be expected from the smaller units....unless they are maxed out? Maybe a faulty or cheap voltage regulator? Something like that...

As I mentioned...Safety should be #1 if someone was going to do this! Absolutely!
HERE (http://www.cpsc.gov/library/portgen.pdf) is a great little article with some specs in it.
Adequate mechanical ventilation would be a must. Keep a negative pressure on the room. Seal the gen room as close to 100% as you can from the rest of the home. Have CO detectors all over the place within the home.

[Hang10]

Also...perhaps the ventilation of the gen room should run 24/7? Whether the unit is running or not.

[c-ray]

what about capstone microturbines? they say they can run continuously
http://www.microturbine.com/prodsol/products/index.asp

also they make biogas (methane) and diesel versions, the methane ones can be run off landfill off-gassing..another nice thing about the capstones is that they make hot water and heat too