selecting males

[c-ray]

IMHO
when I am making seeds, I like to let the males flower as long as possible, ideally in a different location
males can be cloned just like females, so the original males can be flowered and studied, and I will usually choose males that are most similar to my favorite females
for instance I will look at a particular female and make a list of what traits I like about that plant, I will prioritize the list, then I will look at the males and make a similar list of priorities and choose the male(s) that share similar important traits

for instance if I was choosing a highend male (rene x blueberry) to backcross onto the rene clone I would be first and foremost be looking for a male that expresses the aromas/odors of the rene clone, since rene is all about the flavor, I would want to choose the most rene like smelling male by rubbing my nose on the stalks of the different males daily and going for the ones that smell most like rene

the reason we let males go as long as possible is because certain aromas come out later in flowering and also because the resinous males usually don't start showing resin until week 5 or 6

let's talk males what are your ideas?

[Tug]

Crossing Highend to the Rene...... mmmmmm

peace - Tug

[Bram]

what highend pheno on to rene?

[c-ray]

the pheno

[Tug]

I think the Rene pheno from H.E. F2's would be great cause it's more like it's mom, but the skunk pheno probably has more stability, as it posesses the physical growth characristcs of the Blueberry (prob. less prone to hermaphrodism) and the taste/smell of the Rene.
I say this cause I see nanners on the Rene pheno Highend.

Then again Vanouver prob has other Highend phenos, as we have some legends here in BC.... lmao

Sorry to hijack C, can you give some more male traits/hints as what to look for?

peace - Tug

[c-ray]

personally I would just want to get as close to the same aromas as possible, the other traits are not so important, though we also want to select against late flowering bananas

with a simple project like this we are wise to use f2 males, since in the f2 generation (in theory) every possible phenotype will show provided enough seedlings are evaluated, while if we used an f1 male to backcross to the clone we will see males that show the hydrid-mixed phenotypes
thus
it is harder to look at an f1 male and know what it's utimate contribution will be, so we would be wise to take ALL of the highend f1 males and females and open pollinate them (ie mix the pollen from all the males and polllinate each female)...then go through lots of f2s until we find ideal males

so we want to grow a lot of f2 seeds, choose the most suitable males and save pollen and/or clones from each one, then we'll do test crossings labelling which particular male has been crossed with which female, then go through the test seeds growing enough females of each and purposely flowering them for extra weeks so we can see which seedlot has the least incidence of late flowering bananas

[guest]

IMHO
when I am making seeds, I like to let the males flower as long as possible, ideally in a different location
males can be cloned just like females, so the original males can be flowered and studied, and I will usually choose males that are most similar to my favorite females
for instance I will look at a particular female and make a list of what traits I like about that plant, I will prioritize the list, then I will look at the males and make a similar list of priorities and choose the male(s) that share similar important traits

for instance if I was choosing a highend male (rene x blueberry) to backcross onto the rene clone I would be first and foremost be looking for a male that expresses the aromas/odors of the rene clone, since rene is all about the flavor, I would want to choose the most rene like smelling male by rubbing my nose on the stalks of the different males daily and going for the ones that smell most like rene

the reason we let males go as long as possible is because certain aromas come out later in flowering and also because the resinous males usually don't start showing resin until week 5 or 6

let's talk males what are your ideas?

I do basically the same thing , but I like to cut 3 tops off each male and cure them and smoke one each morning to get athe drop on potency , I then clone the them and flower out the donors and look for resin , aromas , and size and mass of male flowers.

[danimal]

want a reverse herm as my male they are the really really frosty ones that usually put frost on early around week 3 or so instead of later on as you noticed c-ray also read something from dj sayin they almost gaurentee herm proof progeny increase resin production stability and female to male ratio goes up

[c-ray]

I have mixed feelings about reverse herms, ie males with a couple pistils, that they prevent herms in the first gen yes that is a bonus but hard to say what happens genetically down the road, since we are dealing with genes that are out of balance

[danimal]

I have mixed feelings about reverse herms, ie males with a couple pistils, that they prevent herms in the first gen yes that is a bonus but hard to say what happens genetically down the road, since we are dealing with genes that are out of balance

well there is only one way to find out and that is to try and if my F1 generation is herm proof and i select parents that do not show hermaphrodite traits after extreme stress tests in multiple environments for subsequent generations then I would believe that breeding with a reverse hermaphrodite would be a great start, expecially if the female ratio is increased along with resin production...

[Tug]

Read <genes that are out of balance> and hear what that means.

Would you want children with a woman whose genes are out of balance?

peace - Tug

[c-ray]

that is just my gut feeling
do test your (dj

[danimal]

Read <genes that are out of balance> and hear what that means.

Would you want children with a woman whose genes are out of balance?

peace - Tug

have you ever met a woman who was truly stable? lol.

[Tug]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Good call danimal......

peace - Tug

[danimal]

Thanks Tug. :)

If I was choosing a true male I would want one that puts on dense clusters and many of them in as compact an area as possible, something squat with strong branching and preferably a real real real pungent smell to the stem rub..something that you are like "what the fuck?!" about even in veg. Also something with a flowering time on the longer side 8-9 weeks as fast flowering males are shown to decrease potency in progeny and thats not too acceptable would rather have a faster flowering highly resinous female to bring bloom times in progeny in check.



also when choosing a male stem thickness and structure would be taken in to account, i am in to growing squat indicas that stay short but put dense buds on all the way down to the stem

[Tug]

Excellent, sorry for the attitude, I got up on the wrong side of my coffin today.

I would also include quickness to trigger in my criteria for choosing a male.

peace - Tug

[danimal]

It's all good in the forest Tug. All good.


Showing early is something I did not even think to take in to account, would there be any negative factors to go with this? Auto flower...? Think this would increase yield in progeny and drop flowering times w/o lowering potency sooner they start making buds the bigger they'll get faster and sooner they'll finish type of thing yea?


Nice.


Love learnin shit!

D

[Tug]

Thanks danimal.
The reason I mentioned it is that the time before last that I did seeds I had one male fully open after a week of 12/12, unusual if you ask me. I wasn't keeping males at the time so I don't know how it affects future generations.

peace - Tug

[danimal]

hm well i thought you meant putting on flowers fast and swelling them up large over a period of time not releasing for pollenation after only a week of 12/12 i would not want to breed with that as it would probably drastically lower potency of its progeny

[caddis]

with a simple project like this we are wise to use f2 males, since in the f2 generation (in theory) every possible phenotype will show provided enough seedlings are evaluated, while if we used an f1 male to backcross to the clone we will see males that show the hydrid-mixed phenotypes

Nice. So instead of going from say CB4 f1 to the pure cb we go CB4 to CB 4 grow the resulting beans find the CB dom male/fem and take that back to the pure CB thereby giving a little more vigor to the line. Mostly.

Thanks gents nice thread. Any thoughts appreciated.

taker easy