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Alaska
09-07-2006, 01:52 AM
Hey everyone, thought I would give a little grow tutorial about my growing style. It will cover a basic rundown of my system, overall cost, yeild, and crop cycling information. So, lets get started. Just to tease you from the get go, this type of system will get you a constant yeild of a around pound plus every 20 days. Also, this system will use only 1500-2000 watts of power in two rooms, so that is a plus.

This grow style requires two seperate areas, one grow or veg area of at least 5x5 and one blooming area of at least 3.5'x10'. The flowering room doesn't have to be those dimensions, but you need to be able to fit 3 3x3 ebb and flow tables inside, and have at least 4 feet of headroom.

I know lots of people live in countires where there are penalties for growing cannabis. Many of us accept the risk of our hobby, unfortunatley, in many countries around the world, having more than 99 plants can land you in some serious hot water, while having 99 plants or less, is similiar punishment to getting caught with more than an oz of herb. So, we will focus on how to maximize production and crop cycling with 99 plants or less, focusing on a quick turnaround time, while growing indoors using minimal amounts of electricity. This system will also allow you to keep around 31 nonblooming mother or seed plants, or with an added lamp, can increase production by 1/3(to about 2 lbs every 30 days) if only 2 or 3 large mothers are used.

Here is the equipment list required along with prices and a grand total.

Quantity Item Unit Price Total
3 600 Watt HPS $300 $900
Digital Ballasts

3 3x3 E&F Trays $75 $225

3 Air cooled Hoods $185 $540
I use Bell Lightings
600 LMV series

3 600 HPS bulbs $109 $327

3 Window exhaust Fans $20 $60

2 6" heavy duty exhaust $179 $358
fans - One for carbon filter
and one to exhaust hoods

1 4" heay duty exhaust fan to $129 $129
vent lights

1 6" Carbon Filter $179 $179

10 Sheets 1/4 insulation $20 $200
w/reflective foil to constuct
Grow box

1 Box 500Qty 2g-Grow Bags $95 $95

1 2 1/2g Pure Blend Pro Grow $95 $95

1 2 1/2g PBP Bloom $95 $95

2 1g Blackstrap Molasass $8 $16

1 2 1/2g PK 13-14 Bcuzz $100 $100
Brand is what I use

1 Quart Superthirve $65 $65

1 Large Container Thrive $40 $40
Alive B1

1 Clone machine, I use $179 $179
Botanicare Jetgro 42 site

1 400 HPS Ballast & Bulb $120 $120

1 Set Measureing Spoons $3 $3

3 5g Buckets for watering $5 $15

Chain, S Hooks, Ceiling hooks, $25 $25

1 Cycle Stat or similar timer $100 $100
or co2 controller

1 20lb co2 tank $100 $100

1 Co2 Regulator, and hose $179 $179

12 Bags 2.8cu ft soilless mix $10 $120
I use sungro Pro Blend

2 All metal intermatic timers $20 $40

2 12 gauge ext cords $10 $20

2 Bottles Plant success $25 $50
myco Tabs

Total $4,375 plus tax

FYI, you can buy smaller quantites of nutes, but this is about 12-18mo supply of most of the above mentioned products.


Now that thats out of the way, we can get started

Set up the garden as follows.

Hang the 3 hoods, each one centered over one of the 3x3 ebb and flow tables. I put a piece of clear packing tape over the fitting holes in the tables. Don't make it too big, cause water will get into the wrinkles, causing it to leak. If you get it smooth, it will hold water without leaking for a long long time. Keep in mind, we are using soilless medium, not true hydroponic methods, so we are just watering from the bottom, not doing real hydro, so the tape only has to hold water long enough for it to be absorbed by the plants, which only takes about 10 minutes.

Next, measure and cut your insulation into a box that will go around your tables. Make sure to put the foil side in. I use heavy duty duct tape to hold the walls together. I only tape two sides of the box, so there are three walls taped together forming a U shape around the 3x3 table, allowing me to easliy remove the fourth wall as it is not taped in so to maintain the plants. I have two lights and two tables in one box, and a single light and table in a second box, though you could put all three in one box with no problems. The dimensions per box are just over 3x6 and just over 3x3, respectively, as the tables I use have a small lip. Add a little water and look how it pools. you may have to shim under the table. I usually shim with pieces of cut off insulation from making the boxes.

Measure your window exhuast fans and cut out holes in the insulation and duct tape the fans in place. I would mock up a 2g grow bag, set it in the tray, imagine how tall the plants will be, probably 12"-24" above the soil, and put the top of the fan at about the 18" above the soil line.

I have all my ballasts in one box, for easy removal if necessary. There are holes cut for the power in and the lamp lines to go out. There are two surge protectors attached to each side of the box. The surge protectors are attached to two all metal internatic timers, which are wired with standard outlets coming out of the power out. The power in is direct wired to an extension cord which goes to a power outlet. Each timer goes to a seperate circuit.

Make sure your room is well sealed, and tap into an air duct or arrange an outside air source for the lamps air intake. You will also need to arrange to vent the hot air from the lamps outside of the room.

Hook up the co2 regulator to the tank. Figure out the setting according the the manufacturors dircetions, and hook up to your timer and set all that up. If you need help figureing out what setting to set your regulator at, just ask and I will be glad to help.

*****************Now, on to the good stuff*************************

The heart of this system is a clone machine and a good quality 60 day strain. I have used many different strains with this system, and yeilded at minimum 3/4 lb per light and a maximum of 20 oz per light. Gotta love that SD :)

You will need to get your lights on a 20 day cycle with 16 plants under each light. You will clone 20 cuts for 20 days, and then TP the best 16 clones directly into the bloom room. That same day it is necessary for you to clean your clone machine and refill it with clones. 20 days later, you will repeat the process, and put plants under the second light, clean your machine and refill with cuttings. 20 days later you will repeat the process, placing plants under the third light. Finally, 20 days after that you will harvest the buds from the first light, TP, clean, and refill your machine all in one day. From this point forward, every 20 days you will harvest a 600 watts worth of herb, TP, clean machine, and refill with clones. If you lag behing a day or a week in cleaning and refilling your machine, then your harvest will take a day or a week longer to get in. It always sucks to have to look at plants and know your out of herb and that if you would have cleaned your machine on time, the buds your staring at would have been done. Lazy ass me :( This method also requires prompt trash disposal. After you chop and TP, but before you clone, you may need to get the trash and dead plant pots out of the house in order to keep your numbers proper. Dead plants are still plants in the eyes of some.

As you can see, as far as plant numbers are concerned 3 lamps x 16 plants per lamp = 48 budding plants + 20 rooting cuts = 68 plants. That leaves room for 31 other plants, be they mothers or seedlings or both. I usually keep around a dozen mothers, so I can sprout about 18 seeds at a time, and throwing away 1/2 males allows me to make cuts of the females when the time comes. While we are on the subject the mother room is setup stadium style with insulation on 4 sides, and a bare 400 HPS hanging vertical and the taller plants in back, and short seedlings actually under the lamp. The clone machine is kept under fluorescents. In an upstairs closet, but it will work in the veg room off to the side of the light.

The interworkings of the system goes as follows.

Take clones in your clone machine and allow to root for 20 days. A clone machine is REQUIRED, as other methods wont give you the growth we need for this system to work. I'm talking roots 10'' or longer, thick and vigourous roots. If you cannot produce clones like this, then this system will NOT work for you. The good news is I've set up complete novices with a good clone machine and they have had no problem producing quality clones.

I clone as follows:

You will need to make the cuts by taking large 4-6" pieces of shoots. Remove the lower branches, leaving 2 or 3 good sized nodes and leaves. Make a 2" long side cut down the stem to the cut end, and cut into the diameter of the stemm exposing the pithe or white inside layer of the stem. In other words, cut about 2" off of the stem along the length of the stem. Some plants do not have a white layer inside and are hollow, that is fine as well cut in the same fasion

Prepare clone machine as follows

My clone machine holds 5g of water.
I put 1t thrive alive B1 and 1/4t superthrive per gallon of water. This will last for about 10 days in the clone machine with no need to top up, at least in my situation.
After 10 days, I top up the clone machine with one gallone of water that has 2T thrive alive b1, 1t superthrive, 3T pure blend pro grow.
If they plants use more water than this in the next 10 days, top up with just plain water, and if the plants yellow, use the PBP recipe again.

It will be necesarry to open the machine and take your hand and run it between the cutting to seperate the roots so the plants don't get tangled up. This will help a lot when it comes to transplanting them. By the time 20 days have passed you should have vigourously rooted cuttings which have also grown above ground and the cuttings have probably put on a couple of nodes and are much taller than when put in the machine.

Next, you must transplant your clones into the 2g grow bags. you will need to mix your water as follows. 1T PBP Grow, 1t TAB1, 1t ST per gallon water. I usually use 1/2 gallon water/plant unless the soilless medium is extrememly dry, in which case it is necessary to use a little more water, though it is advised to use plain water in addition to the above mentioned formula in cases of extreme dryness. I will usually make 9 gallons of water per 16 plants.

I fill the grow bag 1/2 way up, then toss in a myco tab, then place the cutting, and fill the rest of the way with dirt. I try to place them high in the pot to give the roots as much room to grow downward as possible. As stated earlier, use 1/2g water per plant. Also, jack the light up past the insulation walls for the first day, as this allows a lot of the light to escape and be less intense. Drop it down to a little above normal on day 2 after they have perked up, and then FIM on day three, and drop the light to normal level, about 6" above the tops of the plants.

The FIM is the most helpful tip I have ever read in all my years studying the plant. When you FIM there must be at least 4-6 good nodes below the top node. Pinch the top node, but not completely off like you do in a normal topping. You leave a "nub" of about the bottom 1/3 of the growth tip. This causes all the branches to shoot up in a circular pattern around the nub, which can develop subsantial bud itself. This is a method that with just one topping you can have between 4-12 tops. I once had a 4" NL plant which had about 16 tops when using this method, but it was around 10" when fimmed with many more than 4 nodes.

The trick to this system is knowing your strains. You want strains with about 1ft of stretch after the flip to 12/12. Most strains I have found will do this, even if they are exceptionally quick, like the 35 day romulan I have. They will only do this however, if the cuttings are vigourously rooted, as described above. Incorporating the strech into the bloom time in conjuction with very well rooted plants means almost no TP shock, and vigourous growth from the get go. Toss in the FIM, and you get a wonderfully even canopy and the plants are only about a foot high. Even the extremely shaded bottoms ususally fill out reasonlably well.

I have grown all my strains through this system, with complete runs of both topped and untopped plants. Usually the yeild is just about the same, with the topped yeilding a little bit more, maybe and ounce on the whole, but I prefer to top becuase if you dont have that massive cola, there is a lot less chance of losing it to mold, which I have a problem with about 1/2 the year. The topped plants rarely mold however, and will yeild the same or more than the untopped.

The first set of budding plants will take about 7 days after TP before they are thirsty again. Now that the plants are in the trays, we can water with the 5g bucket. Just remove two plants, dump the 5g of nute mix into the tray, and replace the two plants and allow them all to suck up the water from the bottom. Beleive me, they will suck the tray dry! Blooming schedule waterings are as follows

1st watering after TP - All listed in the amound per 5g water

3T PBP Grow
3T PBP Bloom
2T Thrive alie B1
1 1/2t superthrive

2nd watering per 5g water
6T PBP Bloom
2T Thrive alive B1
2T PK 13-14
5T Molassas


After they dry up after the second watering, give them about 2g water in the bucket with only 5t epsom salts and water in. Oops, didn't put epsom salt on the expense list. A dollar or two from your local pharmacy.

All other waterings follow the week 2 watering schedule. Flush with plaing water or with just molassas and water for the last 10-14 days. Just so its stated here, the molassas is to feed the plant success myco fungi, so they can make the nutes available to the plants, as plants synthesize their glucose by photosythesis, not so much uptake them from the roots, at least thats how I understand it anyways.



Tend to the next batches of clones in the same manner, and if you can keep up on your chores and harvest, transplant, clean a clone machine, refill a clone machine, and get rid of your trash all in the same day, then this system will reward you with around a pound plus of primo smoke every 20 days which equals out to about 18 pounds per year. All with the same risk in most places as having more than an ounce of herb.

I hope I've helped you all out, as much trial and error has brought this to me over time. ps, if you get 3 or 4 co2 tanks, then you only have to go get them filled about 4 times per year instead of monthly :)

Some strains I've used with this method and the yeilds I've got in return are as follows. Each is from one 600 watt hps

20-21 oz Sour Diesel(flowered 75 days, not 60, and also knuckled, and tied down. The lamp fell on this crop and crushed many plants and killed two, and the yeild was still fantastic)

19 oz SOL Blockhead - 45 day pheno

16 oz my Alaskan

16 oz The fake mccoy

16 oz SOL Sweet Tooth #3

15 oz Brothers Grimm C99

15 oz Pukeberry

15 oz Alaskan x ST#3

14 oz Romulan(unknown cali origin)

Others I don't remember :)

Well folks, I think that that about wraps it up for now, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask either in the forum or in PM.

Be safe and enjoy life

Alaska

Glass Man
09-07-2006, 02:42 AM
Excellent plan! Thanks for taking the time to share it with us.

peace,

simple
09-07-2006, 02:44 AM
Damn Alaska nice Thread bud , damn nice

be well

simple

fried
09-07-2006, 02:58 AM
Wow!

Agent-Smith
09-07-2006, 03:05 AM
I'm glad more people are stepping up to do the play by play. I was beginning to think I was the only one. :D

Good job Alaska! :thumbsup:

Dman
09-07-2006, 03:57 AM
Hi Alaska,

EXCELLENT thread my friend! :)

Can I ask just how bad the SD herm issue truely was? How did you stay on top of it?

I've got access to the ECSD clone...but the herm issue is making me hesitant to bring her in. :(

kisanth
09-07-2006, 04:08 AM
Sounds like a sweet setup you got there Alaska! Thanks for the tutorial. ;) Like I need another project.....

Have you tried making trays instead of buying them?

Is it possible that Orange Spice was one of those strains you used but don't remember?

k.

CannyBus
09-07-2006, 04:17 AM
and that doesn't even include price of the genetics, and cost to either Build or prepare the growroom for it's purpose

DOZEE
09-07-2006, 10:51 AM
dou you have pics?

Alaska
09-07-2006, 05:03 PM
Glass man, simple, and Hell-Fried, A-S, thanks for the compliments :)

Dman, the herm issue on the SD is not anything to worry about. I kept about 8 oz of the 20, and got about 6 seeds. I also keep males in the next room, so no way to be sure the dad until I grow them.

I dissected several of the SD herm flowers, and never found any pollen, so they may be sterile. ALso, they were only present during the Stretch phase of bloom. The tendency is NOT something to avoid the strain over, as it is really nice. And from what I was told I have the original. I have some more pics of the SD and the pukeberry from the threads I did, but haven't had time to upload them yet.


Kisanth, I have thought about making trays, but I am lazy :). I am considering doubling my setup, and moving my veg upstairs, and turning the veg room into another flower room via a flip flop(search for my tutorial on building one here if you need yhlep PM me). If I do that, I will probably build the tray myself. Couldn't a been OS, as I've never grown it, do you recomment it ?

Cannybus - I think my genetics collection costs more than bulding my grow, No Joke! Also, if you reread, you will see that the reflective foam insulation is duct taped together to build the grow box, and a window fan is inserted into the insulation wall. So, constuction of the room is really taken care of in this estimate.

Dozee - All the pics I have ever posted have been with this setup. Search for my SD or Pukeberry threads. They only show one of the three lights usually. I will try to get a whole room shot as well as a veg room shot sometime soon, but no promises as my head has been spinning from school!!

Be safe, enjoy life and I am glad you all enjoyed the tutorial

Alaska

CannyBus
09-07-2006, 09:04 PM
:) somehow i missed that part.

Dman
09-07-2006, 11:04 PM
Hi Alaska,

Well...your word is good enough for me my friend. ;) Time to bring Sour-D into da house! :kind:

Alaska
09-07-2006, 11:44 PM
Cannybus - glad to help!

Dman - Its a winner as far as I am concerned. You tried the pukeberry yet, its pretty good. PM me Dman, as we should talk

A

Glass Man
09-08-2006, 02:53 PM
Making trays is very simple. If you need large trays making them is a very good way to save $$. I've made two trays. One 4x8 and one 4x4.

They are just plywood & 2x4 (or 2x6) construction, lined plastic/rubber. For the liner 40 mil "EPDM" rubber (used for ponds, pools, roofing, under tubs & showers, etc.) is the most durable. I paid $30 for a 5x6' piece for my 4x4 tray. I have also used 6 mil poly for my 4x8 tray and it has been working fine for SWC, but my grow is in a basement where I'm not too worried about leaks. Use "bulkhead" fittings for the fill & drain holes. ( If your tray must drain completely you'll need to add a layer of "filler material" (I used foam board) to raise the floor above the bulkhead fitting's flange thickness, which is about 1/4" thick).

Resevoirs are just as simple to construct using the same materials. I made a 110 gallon one for the 4x8 tray, but chose to just use a 45 gallon tote for the 4x4 tray. Since resevoirs only have liquids in them, and no abrasive pots, plant, or grow rocks I feel that 6 mil poly is quite adequate as a liner. I ripped 45 degree braces for the interior corners to add support and also to protect the liner from sharp corners. I also add a crossbrace on top of the res to ensure the walls didn't bow when filled.

Only minimal hand tools are needed (except I used a table saw for ripping the resevoir's 45 degree corner braces). All you need is a drill and a hand saw for cutting the 2x4's to length. Lowe's & HDpot will cut the plywood to size for free, so you don't have to worry about that.

If you need trays larger than 4x8 it would be simple to just "scab" sheets (of plywood) together to make them any size.

peace,
glass

Artful Dodger
09-08-2006, 03:18 PM
Good, detailed thread, A!!! Thank Ya'!!!

Arty

Agent-Smith
09-08-2006, 04:25 PM
As an extra bit of help with GM's post, if you would like to "see" what he is talking about, check out the grow tunnel thread in my signature. :)

Alaska
09-08-2006, 09:28 PM
Thanks Glassman, I appreciate it. $30 for the plastic, huh. What type of total cost were there for each tray if you don't mind?

I appreciate any way to save money, but my thinking is this:

$70 for a tray

vs

~$20 for plywood, $30 for plastic, a couple more for foam board, plus the fittings, ~$15 I assume, and you're at about $70, and have lost all the time building them. If I was not a busy college student, I would build them, but my time is worth more than the couple of dollars saved imvho. :)

I DO appreciate it and don't mean to sound ungrateful for the info, so don't take it that way!

I will attempt to get some pics of the whole system in action this weekend, but no promises, as I have two exams next week to study for.

Peace all and be safe

A

Glass Man
09-08-2006, 10:34 PM
If you can get the 3x3 trays, and that's the size you need/want, I'd just buy those. I don't live near a hydro store, so shipping would be added to the cost. Also a 4x8 size would be much more expensive and couldn't ship UPS, so in that case DIY is the way to go. A 4x8 using EPDM should cost around $100 +/- The EPDM would be around $60, the wood about $30 and the fittings are about $8 each (you'd need at least one for the drain).

Alaska,
I'm not trying to sell/tell you "anything", because you've obviously got your game figured out. I think your post should be stickied, it is exactly the kind of info many growers need, and not just the newbies. It's post like your's which will help rebuild CW.

Thank you again, ;)

simple
09-08-2006, 11:26 PM
Hey Alaska been meaning to ask , what's the make up of your strain Alaskan , I know you said before but I can't seem to find the thread where you described it "

thanks

be well

simple

Alaska
09-14-2006, 07:42 PM
Glass man, the salesman pitch never even crossed my mind dude!

I do appreciate the construction info, as it is a valauble contribution for those with less options.

If I empoly flip to double production in the future(not likely, but its still nice to dream :) ), I would build one 3x9 tray, as it could be done easily enough for less than the $220ish to by 3 3x3's.

A sticky recommendation, you flatter me good sir. Couldn't have a good post without discussion, so thanks guys and any questions don't hesitate to ask!

I have been wanting to write this post literally forever, just finally got around to it. Stoners, what a bunch!

Arty and AS, thanks for stopping in.

Simple - The alaskan has more of a story to it than any concrete information. I have learned about the characteristics of the clone through various crossings, and know wout doubt it carries a reccessive herm trait, but the rest is lore. and It goes like this

About 25 years ago, a park ranger in alaska was on patrol, and found some of the most gorgeos cannabis he had ever seen(insert, I don't know if it was natural or cultivated). Being a good stoner, he took some (or all, don't know) . The rangers cousin was into growing indoors, so he mailed him some seeds gleaned from the bud. The cousin sprouted them, and has kept the strain alive ever since. In middle school, I fell in with the cousins nephew, and a couple years later, I arranged a trade between a grower friend of mine and my friends uncle. Ever since then I have had the alaskan, and its some funky stuff, let me tell you! I have held it for about 8 years now.

Thats my story and Im stickin to it!

I have some that will be done in a couple weeks, but ice mt fucked me. They changed their gallon bottles to 3l bottles and I didn't catch it, and fertilized with food for 3.7l, and so the plants have had too much N and are bolting/running a little, but they are still doing ok

I also pollenated them with some alaskan BX1 male D - Offspring #1 pollen, for the first of several versions of bx2ing that will take place. All males will be kept until seed crop has been dried, stored, grown, cured, and evaluated, so as to keep all lines 100% recreatable :)

Well, thats all folks, I am off to start a cabbage thread, so I will see you all there

Be safe and enjoy life, thats important :)

Alaska

gisisi
09-15-2006, 08:32 PM
High Alaska.

I like your perpetual system.
Since I will be using ebb and flow with hydroton and 100 watts per square foot, I am concerned that I would a get table with 3 foot plants, with 1 foot plants next to them, thereby shadowing the short plants.

What is your experience?

gisisi

simple
09-16-2006, 02:11 AM
Hey Alaska thanks bud for the info and the story sounds pretty fine .

thanks again Alaska

be well

simple

Alaska
09-16-2006, 04:35 AM
Hey Gisisi, thanks for stopping by and glad you ask your question!

If you use 1 light per tray, regardless of wattage, although I assume 1k from your 100 wpsf figure, then thte plants will not be effected by their neighbors.

However, if you attempt to multiple trays with one light you will have problems maintaining proper canopy


Simple - No problemo!

Be safe all

A