"I am an idiot" Re: soil mixes

[Genghis Bong]

Well it's the time of year to start thinking seriously about soil mixes and being the slacking stoner I am, I figured that a certain database would be there when I needed it for consultation :rolleyes:

anyhoo.. post your OD soil mixes to give us a jump start this year.

[capt carnuba]

Here's an Oldie,but a goodie I found somewhere ;) :

For a one pound plant finishing at the end of September,will fully flush out as well.

We usually use 1 compressed bale (4cuFt) of Sunsine mix #7 (with water crystals)

3 lb Canola Meal
1 lb Feather meal
2 lb High P Bat guano
1 lb Greensand
2 lb Dolomite lime
1 lb Kelp meal.

If you usually grow Half or quarter pound plants ,just divide mix into 2 or 4 as needed.

[tj_142]

Fox Farm Ocean Forest 50%with 25 % perlite, 25% vermiculite, handfull of lime, small sample bag of worm castings............I DO NOT Feed during 1st 4-5 weeks of Veg" , your plants will tell you, but it really works, then use this chart:6

[vapor]

looks like the BEAR proof mix capt...
fuck these keys the letters are wearing off and i am stoned were that spell check???

[Thorax]

It depends entirely on where you are at and how the local soil is comprised.

If you're in acidic forest areas, take that into consideration.
If you're in alkaline desert areas...thats totally different.
Southern clay/mud is another story....

Nothing will work everwhere......nothing.

Give me a bit more info on your locale and I'll dial ya right in.
<edit>
Lemme rephrase that....
Let me know the soil type and the latitude and elevation.
How large or small do you want to finish with...
What is the cover like (weeds, trees, or bare)?
Is smell a factor (yes the soil plays into that factor)?
Any other details you can give out without it being a security issue.
</edit>

[Genghis Bong]

Hey Thorax,

The soil here is quite acidic as we have mostly coniferous forests. I have pretty much given up on trying to amend the soil. Digging is very hard and to sweeten the soil takes preplanning and foresight enough to do your plots up a year in advance. Instead of digging holes, we have found the best way is to bring in your own soil mix and make mounds or create a makeshift pot to fill. I'd still like to hear what you would reccomend for this area though...

[Thorax]

By "coniferous" you mean "pine/juniper/cedar/etc", correct ?

You would be best by digging holes....sure it sux, it's still the best way.
Mounds bleed moisture too quickly (too much surface area), a natural occuring concave area to fill would likely be too wet as it probably appeared from a heavy rain.

First and most importantly....
You must remove all pine needles from the surface of the soil, plants won't grow well with pine needles in the soil....they are damn near toxic.

If you can stand it, I dig my holes *at least* 4 foot deep....average roots from a 8 foot plant will go 8 foot down....or more.
Straw is a good bottom filler for your holes, at least a foot of it to offset the drainage issues you'll probably have....not hay, straw.
Mix about 1/2 native soil with about 1/3 of something like sunshine mix or potting soil and add regular playground sand in along with something to stabilize the PH (obviously lime will work) with a good bit of something to enrich nitrogen levels....unfortunately most of them attract critters.
If you have an issue with deer, rabbits, and the like, I would seriously consider chem ferts as they are a detractant to such animals....and a healthy dose of some clean compost that has been mulched correctly.
The compost is very important since you'd be using it to keep the soil loose and airy....use as much as you can.

After mixing it back into the hole, cover the hole with a plastic tarp for about 1-2 weeks and let it sweat (obviously this might be a security issue).
*IF* you can use the tarp, great....it really rocks the soil quick.
If you can't use it because of the security issue it'll take about a month for the soil to be stable enough.
You have to keep soaking it if you can't use the tarp.....if you use the tarp 1 good solid watering will get it thru the 1-2 week time.

Note: I generalized a bit and assumed classic pine forest "hard pack" soil with a heavy needle covering.
Adjust at will, it's just a general "what I would do" kind of thing.

[BravoC.D.]

thorax i belive u hit the tree's right no the nose.

[OneLegUp]

thorax,

SoSoCal..sandy...alkaline....coastal plain

Last year I dug the hell out of the med garden..added various items lime, mag, manure, potting soils etc... but still was pushed upwards by the 7.6-7.8 water we have... This time I'll put large plastic trash cans close by..fill with water and adjust ph...

This year I plan on doubling the size of the garden and raising it it by 1' all the way arround....

Question really goes to what would be the best mix for the the additional 1' that I can mix in...??? I'll be adding about 144 cu ft of soil or???

One thing I should point out... we are right at the edge of the coastal plain cool and inland heat... 5 mi from ocean... get coastal cool at night/morning... daytime temps can in Aug/Sept go high 90s easy....garden is in it's own micro climate...winds at the house can be 25 MPH...and yet at the garden 2 mph maybe..so no real winds effect......

[Thorax]

OLU.....
Is/was it orange grove property in the past ?

Most of SoCali at one point was a orange/strawberry/lemon/lime/grapefruit/avocado farm.

If you have that soil, rock it.....get a few sacks of "nitrohumus" and thats all it really needs. I know the label sounds nasty....but it's just a good old fashioned way to make super potent soil....naturally.

If you have what seems to be beach sand for soil....you'll need to summon up the gods and get a truckload of topsoil brought in.

This year....add more lime.

[OneLegUp]

thorax,

Not an old orange grove......

Essentially coastal desert area...land carved out of granite hill sides... just sandy alkaline soil w/some clay...

To get an idea what I'm doing..think of an area I dug out last year as being appx. 6' x 10'... it was dug down about 2.5'...soil mixed etc...

What I intend upon doing is now raising everything up around and including the 6'x 10' area by 1'... This way the 6x10 is essentially centered...with a 3' outer ring on the long sides and 1' on the short...

Imagine a rectangle within a rectangle..inner 6x10 for my meds out for my veggies.

I'll then dig out the older soil or most of it from the 6x10... and move it to the outer edges and replace the center area with the new stuff.. essentially i'll be starting from scratch in the 6x10 area... The outer areas will be for tomatoes etc the inner portion my meds...

At least that is my "logic"... if it can be called that...

My thoughts are what to use as a base mix for the center... One problem is getting stuff to the garden..not easy and must be bagged..which is a bummer because we get up to 2 yards for free in bulk of 90 day old compost in my area... from the green recycling center......and $4 per yard for the next 10..

[Thorax]

Sorry to tell you....but any more than about 20-30% of that sandy shit, in content, is about as much as you can really use.
That'll be an assload of work.

You're not too far away....and I have a pickup.

[OneLegUp]

thorax... appreciate the offer.... but can 100% assure you getting any bulk to my garden would require bagging it at my home then getting it to the lower part of the house...then humping it to the garden...which is down an inclined path/walk in the back

Trust me... it's a frickin' pain... in the past.. I got bagged manure/potting soil etc...... drop it over a wall that goes down about 10' to the bottom then walk around the house...along the house to where you've dropped the bags...then ya have to hump each bag down to the garden...which is down a path which drops 8-10' in height in about 20'..then go another 30' to the garden ...which is another 4-5' drop in height..in that 30'..

I'm going to be having some tree work and bushes trimmed in the next week or two in the lower 40 as my wife and I call it... thus if I know the proper mix... I'll just have them do the labor of getting the shit down there.....

[Thorax]

About 180 cubic foot if 3 foot deep.

About 70 cu ft native soil.
About 60 cu ft of top soil.
About 50 cu ft of the compost you can get.
Add about 1-50lb sack of lime.
3-50 lb sacks of worm castings.
1-10 lb sack of epsom salts.
1-20 lb sack of bone meal.

You'd have to leave it sit for a while after mixing it in well....maybe 2 weeks and check PH, then check again 2 weeks after that.
It's a good sized space and you're needing to totally renew the soil thats there....so it'll take a bit of time.

From the sounds of the area....it'll take a bit of work too.

[vapor]

carnuba you forgot drippers and a rez...
ruffly 100 gallons per plant/season in a 10 gallon bag...

[vapor]

ps try and keep your elavation below 2000 ft...

[capt carnuba]

drippers and a rez?? I'm a climber, fingertips of steel let me carry many a bucket. ;) Honestly, I find the less complex a system, the more foolproof. I'm always within 80' of water, so a bucket and a hose let's me do wonders and as a rule of thumb nothing is left at the site.

[vapor]

i understand what you are saying carnuba but sometimes we have to adapt to vear the sites the chop chop choppedies....the first place they look is water sites it a war out there...

[Old Toby]

OLU,

hello old friend. I hope all your ventures are coming along well.

You'll find this year that you'll be able to dig easier at the native level. Each year the plants do some work for you. Nice plants. Back fill with the old sunshine mix and enjoy :D

Nitrohumus is great, imo. you need a lot, so if you can find bulk composted manure you'll save a ton....no pun intended. Add a bunch of greensand and rock phosphates asap...they take time to become available. Simple things like staking and metered waterings will make life easier on both you and your plants.

ps coffee grinds lower the soil pH. ;)

>23

[vapor]

"ps coffee grinds lower the soil pH."
interesting, before or after the have run through your coffee maker??

[c-ray]

after, the worms love them too...