Life insurance drug test - help!

[joe6pack]

Hello all,

wifey wants to get some life insurance which is just fine.... but they also do a drug test at the same time... She's ok with my usage but is telling me I have to quit to pass drug test for insurance.

Company is prudential. Their informational flyer says for large dollar policies such as the one I would get a home nurse will come and administer a few or more of several tests including blood pressure, drawing blood, and the dreaded urinalysis.

So I ask my friends here to share your experiences with getting life insurance...

From what I've learned about drug testing it is unlikely they'll be testing my blood for that but they would probably use urine testing for drugs.

As a chronic smoker I understand that I'll need a full 30 days to clean my pee, is this correct?

This is a real long time considering I have plenty of herb nicely cured and there will be another round coming down soon ;)

I'm wondering if substitution will be possible?
i.e. will the home nurse watch the stream from my member to the jar or will the nurse let me go into the bathroom and shut the door?

I've heard that NY Life has switched to saliva testing as it's cheaper and has less of the problems that can occur with urine testing. Anyone know if Prudential does this too?

saliva would be preferable as the window of detection is more like a week to a few days but I don't know if I can count on it.

argh this f-in stinks

thanks in advance for your input!

-joe

[LateShaftNBaggins]

Joe.. I used to have to take drug tests monthly, and I'd smoke for three weeks, take a week off, and then test... The week isn't even that hard... Here's my formula....
Two gallons of water a day (more is good)
Triple dosage of cranberry pills, spread out through the day
Cranberry juice definently wont hurt either, but to drink as much as you get in the cranberry pills you're gonna go broke on juice... Note that I don't have all that much body fat (im no athelete, im just skinny lol) so its not too hard to shake it from my system, and more body fat does effect how you can get it out of your system. My buddy had to get tested for a different reason but by the same monthly test, and he would only clean for four days. I never wanted to risk it...

She will probably let you piss on your own, but you can't be sure. Typically the procedure is that they are supposed to watch but a lot of them tend to opt out for some reason. Heh.. Anyway, I'd probably have a spare cup of clean piss in there (make sure its at body temp because a lot of tests check for that) just in case she does let you go alone, but if you really need to pass, I wouldn't risk it.

Lastly, I have no idea if prudential uses saliva testing now...
LSnB

[joe6pack]

LSnB,

thanks for the quick response - I will definetly do;

1. Flush with water and diuretics for the week leading up to test as it will be scheduled. Your timeline sounds much more do-able.

2. Consider substitution - I was thinking straping it to my thigh in a condom or ballon so it would stay warm...

[Agent-Smith]

From the majority of the tests I have read....it only takes as long as 2 weeks for it to get out of your system. So for you....probably 2 weeks. :D

[lucke]

hey bro i know all about this 1 all to well. my old job use to random test, no notice just come get you & take you to the lab!
theres many thing you can do,

if you drink a lot of water it dilutes your urine & flushes you out, as stated.

codom or ballon with CLEAN urine under the sack to keep it warm.

many urine cleaners at the head shop also & most work dont use the kind you drop tablts in urine!

theres a product in the camping section that purifies river water to drink, drop tablets in botlle water & drink, i smoked the day before & had to test no head shop open so did this & passed!!
but your urine will be clear, so off set with B vitimans.
some labs wont take clear urine!

most cases they wont stand over you unless your on parole, or something.

good luck!

peace...lucke

[Clancy]

A close friend bought a drink at the local head shop - caused acute colon blow but the test was passed.

Can't vouch for which one.. sorry

[Joe King Park]

DO NOT EAT ANYTHING WITH POPPYSEED !!
i got kicked out of CVRC- rehab for eating a poppy seed bagel on one of my allowed day trips down to the bowling lane in Courtenay
yes i had smoked a J, which attracted the counsellors attention, and since i was in for opiate abuse, he assumed from the urine test that i was positive for opiates
if you cannot aquire a Kambucha tea , or Goldenseal, find another good diuretic , i have drunk a bottle of vinegar once to screw up the test

you can get a piss bag , and pipe which you shove down your boxers ( actually i would invest in a pair of Y fronts !!, lol )
and grasp tube when you grasp your member, and empty UNCONTAMINATED urine off your grandmother or someone else you KNOW is drug free

you may find something here [www.paradox.co.uk
best of luck
Joe

[Joe King Park]

heres a shampoo from zydot
as well as a pure drink , also from zydot

you should be able to aquire these products from your local head shop , if you have one

Hair sample or urine sample ??

[Joe King Park]

if you screw up the test , they will only make you repeat it again until they get a result
i would not accept the saliva test personally as this is how one can retrieve your DNA and store it , or share it with other agencies
i hope this does not happen to you
i think the canadian bank of commerce attempted to drug test their employees, but failed
i would like to see doctors and plice orficers get tested
Judges Too !

[tj_142]

Joe,
27-30 days thc stored in fat cells, sweat it out, best I ever did was 24 days......but mostly 27 .....I'm in that same boat...I need to raise my insurance. I've been drug tested three times at work.......passed them all.

the other Ave is to substitute, which works as well, elevates the heart rate....lol they got me for high blood pressure while substituteing

[meloyelo]

I've done these tests a few times and didn't change anything I was doing. Are you sure they will be looking for thc or cannabinoids because as I recall they were looking stricktly for pharmaceutical drugs and cocain and nicotine and such, not cannabis. So I smoked up and drank just like regular the night before my tests and no worries. I think the last one I took was 3 years ago.
Read the form, it should say what they will be testing for.
-melo

[joe6pack]

I've done these tests a few times and didn't change anything I was doing. Are you sure they will be looking for thc or cannabinoids because as I recall they were looking stricktly for pharmaceutical drugs and cocain and nicotine and such, not cannabis. So I smoked up and drank just like regular the night before my tests and no worries. I think the last one I took was 3 years ago.
Read the form, it should say what they will be testing for.
-melo

hey melo thanks for posting your expereince! I really appreciate it. All I was able to find on the Prudential web site is a flyer describing what will happen when the underwriter comes out. It says,

"Based upon your age and the amount of life insurance you are applying for, an exam and/or some medical tests may be required. Your licensed financial professional has indicated the tests that will be initially required to help us make the most informed underwriting decision. After we receive and analyze the results of these initial tests, we may ask you to take additional tests. These additional tests will provide us with the information that we need to fairly assess your eligibility for life insurance.

The medical exam will include a few or all of the following.

Blood Pressure and Pulse Readings
Height and Weight Measurements
A Blood Test and Urinalysis
An Electrocardiogram (ECG)
A Chest X-Ray

In addition to the above, we may request a Motor Vehicle Report...."

[LordOvertoke]

are you sure they're looking for drug use??

my experience has been that they check your blood sugar and throw the pee away.

best of luck,

LO

[LordOvertoke]

are you sure they're looking for drug use??

my experience has been that they check your blood sugar and throw the pee away.

best of luck,

LO

[LordOvertoke]

are you sure they're looking for drug use??

my experience has been that they check your blood sugar and throw the pee away.

best of luck,

LO

[joe6pack]

So I found out more information last night in the form of several surveys of life insurance actuaries performed by the society of actuaries (soa.org – real wild group - they also have interesting other publications on mortality and morbidity as well as the flashy news article “Preparing for a influenza pandemic”…. Kinda scary stuff IMO

Anyways the surveys conducted in 2002 indicated that 100% of the responding companies (44 total including all the big ones) test for illegal drugs at the levels I am seeking insurance. They use the presence or indicated usage of illegal drugs to exclude you from the preferred policy group. That is not to say you cannot get insurance, it’s just it will be in a higher risk group. Now here’s the kicker 78% of them say that once you’re booted from the preferred policy group for drugs you will never be re-evaluated for that preferred policy group.

As an aside other things that get you kicked out of the preferred group include treatment for mental illness like depression, being overweight, criminal history, DUI, tobacco, being a private aircraft pilot, extended foreign travel, prior medical history, family history, and the list goes on…

Back to drug testing. I found in a prior year study - 1999 I think – they spoke about cocaine and tobacco testing through urine first and then separately about other illegal drugs. The numbers in the 2002 survey made no distinction between types of illegal drugs, however one must imagine the insurance industry still does.

In 1999 they discussed nearly always (80+%) testing the urine for signs of cocaine and tobacco use, kidney disease, or unmanaged diabeties.

They said some also test urine for additional items such as illegal drugs but numbers that year showed less of this kind of testing (40-50%)

There’s a note about the number of urine tests being less than the number of blood tests even though they are supposed to be taken at the same time, which supports LoT’s statement that the blood was taken and they tossed the pee. Explaining this it seems to say that sometimes the people administering the pee test just don’t want to do the pee test. Maybe it’s a judgment call, I mean they are after all in your home and they are asking you questions, maybe they say “oh this guy doesn’t smoke (cigarettes) and doesn’t have a history of diabetes and he doesn’t look like a coke head so we’ll skip the pee test as it makes me and them uncomfortable”. That’s just my take on how they explained the lower number of pee tests.

Some mention of the new oral fluid test is made in that they say it is being adopted more widely but still not used as much as pee testing. I think this will have gained more acceptance by now as it is less envasive and it provides an easy way to test for recent usage of cocaine, tobacco, alcohol, MJ as well as AIDS and probably some form of genetic profile testing too. They can get the other stuff from the blood like kidney and diabetes issues..

Anyways so that’s what I’ve learned.

In the end not peeing clean will get you booted out of the preferred group and cost you a good amount of money over a 30 year term life insurance. But so will a myriad of other things…

One thing I did find mention of on some other cannabis site was the idea that because they ask you if you recreationally use illegal drugs and then test you for them they would consider a no answer followed by a positive test to be some sort of truth indicator. That is to say that if you said you smoked weed and tested positive this would be less of an increase in your premiums than if you said you didn’t smoke weed and tested positive. In other words lying about it increases your premium.

-joe

p.s. - Hey LoT I think they also test for tripple posting disease :D

[LordOvertoke]

:blush:

[resinman]

Hello Mr Sixpack

joe,,,,, call this number and order 20 thc test sticks cost with shipping is about 25 bucks,,,

These test are very very accurate,,,just test your urine each morning once you quit smoking,,,take your test first thing each morning,,,first piss,,,you will see how many days it takes to come clean,,,,Everyones system is a little different


this way you can also after a few days drink water and see when its diluted,,,BUt they test for dissolved solids,,,

888-595-3136,,,


resinman

[Silent Soldier]

i would say spend 50 bucks and get the XXTRA CLEAN drink....worked for me 4 times all 4 times was different places and it was federal testing that took split specimens(meaning they took my urine sample split it in 2 and sent each half to different labs to be tested)....or u can get QUICKFIX 4.0.....check ebay for that u can score it for around 10 bucks and thats synthetic urine that u know is allready clean...comes with a little bottle with a temp strip on it and a heating pad...

[Slim Pickens]

double post...sorry

[Slim Pickens]

I appreciate this thread,as I just got a call from a friend asking if I knew of any products that he could use for a drug test.

The company he works for has random testing.If an employee is randomly selected,he/she has a 2 hr window in which to produce a urine sample.If you are unable to produce a sample immediately and request time,then you have a supervisor follow you around until you do.(up to 2 hrs)failure to produce is judged the same as a positive for drugs.

He only medicates on the weekend,and our medical marijuana law does not protect employees.It is up to the discretion of the employer,and this employer has terminated several excellent employees for testing positive for cannabis.

I might suggest to him the xxtra clean as suggested,or perhaps the water purification tabs.But the problem for him might be the opportunity to drink the "concoction".

Sadly,the employer also can terminate for using a masking agent.(goldenseal etc.)

Any other ideas?

[mjcannaboid]

Took me 5 days to clean out my system last time using just water. drinking a bit over a gallon a day(my normal amount). before that it was at least 5 years of having at least a bowl each day, usually more.
The metabolites they check for get stored in your fat cells so avoid anything that will speed up your metabolism causing the fat to be burned and flushed out to be found.
As resinman suggested buy some of the test kits and check for yourself. To be on the safe side I always give myself 2 weeks clean time (though I usually cheat about the 6th or 7th day with a puff or two...) and I have yet to fail the urine test.

[greenwood]

i did one of these recently, i slipped a small amount of bleach into the sample and never heard a thing.

[madscientist]

Here's a 411 from someone who knows about drug testing, I've done it for a living. People would call my lab and say, "Umm...yeah...I've got...umm.. a "friend"... who needs to take a drug test...how long should "they'' not smoke before the test." My answer is: depending on your body fat content and how much you consume each day, you could be clean in 2 weeks or less. If you're overweight, it might take a month. If you don't have cancer, AIDs, MS, etc. and can't go at least a week without smoking, you have a serious problem and need to seek help. Water does flush some of the metabolites from your system and dieting and exersize will help burn off the fat that stores the metabolites. If the urine is collected in a container with a temperature sensitive indicator strip, the urine needs to be fresh from a human bladder, not from a condom on your leg (it won't be warm enough) or from your dog (the body temp is too high). You might be able to somehow use your wife's urine (it's up to you to figure out how), as long as they don't check to see if it's from a male or female. The main thing about water or cranberry juice is that an "invalid or unsatisfactory sample" result will occur (this also goes for bleach). The drugs can still be detected if you haven't stopped smoking and it's amazing how small the amount is that can be found. You might have to take a retest, or (which often happens) they just figure you're trying to fool them. The water dilutes the urine so that the density or specific gravity is considered too low for a good test. The cranberry juice makes it too acidic. Taking several grams of vitamin C and drinking lots of water 2 hours before the specimen collection is cheaper than juice. I'm not familar with the saliva tests, but I believe they're qualitative rather than quantitative (which is what I did) and I think the time limit is much shorter than for urine or blood. I'll have to check that out though. Good luck.

All this reminds me of a joke:

Mr. Jones goes to his doctor because his elbow is hurting. His doctor tells him to urinate into a cup and leaves the room. When Mr. Jones is done, the doctor returns, takes the cup, and pours the urine into an instrument.

The instrument hums, the lights on it flash for a few seconds and a piece of paper prints out. The doctor looks at it and says, "You have bursitis Mr. Jones. I'm going to write you a perscription and then I want to see you in 2 weeks. That will be $50 please."

Mr. Jones isn't very happy. $50 for just peeing in a cup and then pouring it into a machine!

When the day of his next appointment comes around, Mr. Jones decides he going to prove what a quack this doc is. He has his wife pee in a cup, then follows his dog around until he can get some urine. Then, to top it all off, he masturbates into the cup.

The doc again asks for a urine specimen and Mr. Jones puts what he's collected into the cup.

The doctor returns and once again pours the specimen into the analyzer. After the humming and flashing, out comes a piece of paper. The doctor looks at it and says, "Well, Mr Jones. Your wife's going through menopause, your dog's pregnant and if you don't stop jacking off, you'll never get rid of your bursitis. That will be $50 please." :-))

[justcurios]

How About Telling Them You Smoke Cigaretts Your Rates Are A Little Higher But I Am Not Sure If They Drug Test For Pot Still. I Got Health And Life Ins. And We Basicaly Told The Salesman That I Was A Non Smoker And He Wanted Tests. Well Then I Said I Smoked Cigs And He Said Fine Then A Test Would Not Be Necessary
God I Suck At Spelling.

[justcurios]

I Wonder If Its All The Pot I Smoked For Years

[colibri]

Just wondering how the testing went?

when I used bleach before to pass a test it came back as "non-conclusive". Could be, I actually DRANK straight bleach followed by about 2 quarts of water ...dunno .. but I don't suggest bleach. It tastes horrible and made me sick.

I've taken mouth tests .... scrub the inside of your mouth with baking soda, gargle & rinse and chew peppermint come right up tot he moment you have to take the test. Hold it in the side and keep the salvia that's producing from the stick as far from the stick as possible. I just wouldn't move a muscle until that stick was gone. I passed. No problem.

I've also purchased drinks from head shops and passed.

Closest span I've had from smoking and testing is three days with no "help" to pass and miraculously, I still passed.

If it's the actual company you are working for taking the test, the tester may be looking for other things without telling you ... for example .. your tongue says alot about how healthy you are and how much toxins are in your body.

No,they aren't going to say ... let me see your tongue ..this is an FYI info ... the pinker, the healthier .. the more white the more toxins in your body.

My plan, I daily drink a gal of water and pop antioxidant vitamins and keep a detox program on hand .. always ... altho I hardly smoke any more, I do work for a random drug testing company ... so I like to keep all basis covered.

Did you get accepted for the level you were trying for and ever find out what exactly they were testing for?

[c-ray]

from http://www.pr-inside.com/misusing-vitamin-to-foil-drug-test-r85565.htm

2007-04-04

PHILADELPHIA, April 4 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Taking excessive doses of a common vitamin in an attempt to defeat drug screening tests may send the user to the hospital -- or worse.

Researchers from The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and The University of Pennsylvania reported on two adults and two adolescents who suffered serious side effects from taking large amounts of niacin, also known as vitamin B3, in mistaken attempts to foil urine drug tests.

Both adult patients suffered skin irritation, while both adolescents had potentially life-threatening reactions, including liver toxicity and hypoglycemia
(low blood sugar), as well as nausea, vomiting and dizziness. One of the teens also experienced heart palpitations.

All four patients recovered after treatment for the adverse effects. The report appeared online today in the "Annals of Emergency Medicine."

"Testing urine for drugs is becoming increasingly common among employers, government agencies and schools," said study leader Manoj K. Mittal, M.D., a fellow in Emergency Medicine at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "Because niacin is known to affect metabolic processes, there is a completely unfounded notion that it can rapidly clear the body of drugs such as cannabis and cocaine. However, not only is niacin ineffective for this purpose, it is also dangerous when taken in large amounts."

Niacin is easily available as an over-the-counter vitamin supplement. As a vitamin, the recommended daily intake is 15 milligrams, but niacin is available in much larger doses at health food stores. "People often assume niacin is completely safe," said Dr. Mittal. "As a water-soluble vitamin, it is easily excreted from the body. However, the body has its limits, and some of these patients took 300 times the daily recommended dose of niacin." Dr. Mittal added that there is a report in the medical literature of a patient who suffered liver failure, requiring a liver transplant, after taking excessive doses of niacin.

Many Internet sites promote the misconception that niacin can be used to pass urine drug screening tests, Dr. Mittal said. "We hope that our study will alert the general public, emergency medicine physicians and other health care providers to this hazardous practice."

In addition to his position at Children's Hospital, Dr. Mittal is an instructor at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. His co- authors are Kevin C. Osterhoudt, M.D., medical director of the Poison Control Center at Children's Hospital; Todd Florin, M.D.; and Jeanmarie Perrone, M.D.; all of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine; and Joao H. Delgado, M.D., of Hartford Hospital in Hartford, Conn.

About The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia: The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia was founded in 1855 as the nation's first pediatric hospital. Through its long-standing commitment to providing exceptional patient care, training new generations of pediatric healthcare professionals and pioneering major research initiatives, Children's Hospital has fostered many discoveries that have benefited children worldwide. Its pediatric research program is among the largest in the country, ranking third in National Institutes of Health funding. In addition, its unique family-centered care and public service programs have brought the 430-bed hospital recognition as a leading advocate for children and adolescents. For more information, visit http://www.chop.edu/.

Contact: Gina Marchiondo of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, (267) 426-6054, Marchiondo@email.chop.edu

Source: The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia